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| | Punishment - FLOGGING | |
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+5Chelmsfordthescapegoat John Brett Hendey 90th 1879graves 9 posters | Author | Message |
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1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Punishment - FLOGGING Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:14 pm | |
| Hi All A long time ago, Our Member 24th stated the following - Quote :
- There must be documented evidence, or some other source where the flogging were recorded. It would be interesting to find out the Names, regiments and the offence these individuals committed to warrant the punishment of flogging.
I am more than happy to start a list Private 2570 Henry Gray, 2nd 4th [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment Flogging. Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:33 am | |
| Hi 1879Graves . I have read a few instances of where flogging did occur , but from what I remember I dont think any names were mentioned . I will attempt to search through some books to see if indeed there are any names and details given . cheers 90th. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:43 pm | |
| 1879graves,
I don't have any names of soldiers who were flogged , but here is an entry from the diary of Henry Eason who was a Chief Petty Office and part of the naval brigade from HMS Shah.
Monday, 28 April 1879 This is a very dull day. The 57th has just flogged one of their men. There are one or two soldiers being flogged every day, while I am glad to say our men are quite a credit to the Service as to character. The commander has not had a crime brought before him yet, and I hope it will continue so. (THE DIARY OF SIGNAL BOSUN HENRY EASON” from THE NAVAL MISCELLANY, VOLUME VII)
This gives an idea of the number and frequency of incidents of flogging.
Petty Officer Tom |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment Flogging. Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:53 am | |
| Hi all. This from ' Companion To The Anglo Zulu War ' by Ian Knight . 25 / 2 / 79 Pvt. Woodman 2 / 3rd Regt was given 50 lashes at Ft. Pearson for leaving his post while on sentry duty . He was flogged by the ' Drummers ' Reilly & White . The proceedings were watched by Lt. Julius Backhouse who said '' They never hurt him at all '' The footnote says this was from the ' Diary Of Lt. Julius Backhouse , 3rd Regt , National Army Museum . cheers 90th. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:09 pm | |
| Hi All The evidence for William Woodman in writing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:54 pm | |
| Hi All Here is one that got away with his punishment. Private 1252 John charles Ives, 2nd 3rd. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment Flogging. Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:42 pm | |
| Hi all. I've checked a few books since my Woodman post but havent found anymore , what I did find from Ian Knights ' Companion to the Anglo Zulu War ' that it was happening more than one would think . I'll try a few more books over the next day or so and see what turns up. cheers 90th. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 pm | |
| Hi All Another one for the list. Private 36/1431 Frank Fear. (1st 13th Regiment) 50 Lashes for Insubordination & Inappropriate Language [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment Flogging. Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:54 am | |
| This also from Lewis Reynold's Diary.
15th July . Three natives of the NNC under arrest for killing two zulu's who came to give themselves up . 16th July . The men of the NNC made prisoners yesterday were tried and flogged . cheers 90th. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:44 pm | |
| Hi all!
I found an incident in “The National Army Museum Book of The Zulu War” by Ian Knight. It is from the diary of Lieutenant Julius Backhouse, 3rd Regiment (Buffs) and appears to have occurred on, or before, 9 Jan 1879.
“Privates Craney H Company and Bowman G Company flogged for drunkenness 25 lashes each, it did not affect either of them at all”
Petty Officer Tom
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| | | Brett Hendey
Posts : 269 Join date : 2010-12-02 Location : Kloof, KZN
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:28 pm | |
| On page 54 of Terry Sole's recently published book on the Colonials in the Zulu War he records that two men of the 1st King's Dragoon Guards received 50 lashes each for stealing from, and vandalising the premises of a blacksmith, who was serving in the Buffalo Border Guard. The blacksmith also received six pounds in compensation from the Colonel of the regiment.
Brett |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:08 pm | |
| Hi P.O.Tom Here is the evidence for Private Bowman. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment - Flogging Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:44 am | |
| Hi all. Someone asked a while ago about the numbers of those flogged in the zulu war . This from ' Guidebook to the Anglo Zulu War Battlefields ' by David Rattray & Adrian Greaves . '' Within the british army flogging was still regularly practiced ; out of 20,000 soldiers who took part in the campaign , records reveal that 545 were flogged , with 25 lashes being the norm '' . cheers 90th. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:38 pm | |
| Hi All Another one for the list. Private 50B/889 Edwin Greengrass, 57th (West Middlesex) Regiment. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | John
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:01 am | |
| Are there any records for the 1st /24th
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| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:06 am | |
| Hi John
Petty Officer Tom has posted the following list.
24th Regiment Courts-Martial Summaries for 1879
Rank & Name – Date of C.M. - Location
Pte. Patrick Desmond – 2 Jan 1879 – Natal Corpl. Thomas Roddy – 6 Jan – Durban, Natal Pte. James Russell – 6 Jan – Durban, Natal Pte. Edward Dillon – 27 Mar – Helpmakaar Pte. Chales Jones – 9 Apr – Helpmakaar Pte. William Hellett – 9 Apr – Helpmakaar Pte. W. Lyons – 28 Apr – Dundee, Natal Pte. W.H. Sherwing – 6 May – Dundee, Natal Pte. O. Lewis – 6 May – Dundee, Natal Pte. J. Davis – 3 Mar – Fort Napier, Natal Pte. T. Sweeney – 9 May – Dundee, Natal Pte. Thomas Berry – 9 May – Dundee, Natal Pte. Thomas Finn – 11 Jul – Durban Pte. Charles Mathews – 28 Jun – Camp, Zululand Sergt. R. Pound – 3 Jul – Camp, Zululand Corpl. T. Gauge – 3 Jul – Camp, Zululand Drummer W. Hunt – 3 Jul – Camp, Zululand Pte. J. McFoy – 14 Jul – Fort Napier, Natal Pte. William Kisley – 19 Aug – Pinetown, Natal Pte. Thomas Quinn – 19 Aug – Pinetown, Natal Pte. John Jones – 16 Apr – Helpmakaar, South Africa Pte. J. Beresford – 18 Sep – Cape Town Pte H. Watkins – 18 Sep – Cape Town Pte. F. Scott – 22 Aug – Landsman Drift, Natal Pte. John Wall – 16 Aug – Landsman Drift, Natal Pte. J. Walsh – 20 Oct – Fort Napier, Natal Pte. J. Churchill – 1 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. J. Finn – 1 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. J Sheridan – 30 Oct – Pinetown, Natal Pte. J. Lloyd – 30 Oct – Pinetown, Natal Pte. L. Monaghan – 3 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. W. Ormond – 3 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. (Lnce. Corpl.) – P. Delahunty – 4 Nov -Pinetown, Natal Corpl. William Bessell – 25 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte (Lnce. Crpl.) Joseph Morris – 20 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. William Jackson – 20 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. William Wilcox – 25 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. J. Spillacy – 10 Nov – Pinetown, Natal Pte. C. Doyle – 29 Dec – Pinetown, Natal Pte. J. Finn – 29 Dec – Pinetown, Natal
Petty Officer Tom |
| | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:53 pm | |
| Graves, where's that David Jenkins fellow who claim"s to have been at Rorkes Drift. I'm sure he was punished for desertion or similar. |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:54 pm | |
| Hi Chelmsfordthescapegoat Here is David Jenkins record but no floggings [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Sat May 13, 2017 10:19 am | |
| Hi All Another one for the list. This chap was flogged twice. Private 844 John Hogg, 90th (Perthshire Volunteers Light Infantry) Regiment. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment Flogging Sun May 14, 2017 5:57 am | |
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| | | 1879graves
Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:12 am | |
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| | | Danny1960
Posts : 53 Join date : 2020-01-13 Age : 63 Location : Khon Kaen In Thailand
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:11 pm | |
| I just wonder what this done for morale of the soldiers, I appreciate that for desertion of duty etc, then punishment would be required, but does it really raise moral when the offender is publicly flogged in front of his fellow men...? Not sure it achieved much really |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment - Flogging Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:01 pm | |
| Danny who knows what it did for morale ? , the soldiers would've been well aware of flogging , and what you did to receive it . Impossible to apply todays thinking and standards in 1879 . 90th |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3241 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:47 pm | |
| To quote Voltaire in his novel Candide on the execution of Admiral John Byng, ‘...encourager les autres.’ - to encourage the others. In effect to discourage those who bear witness to the punishment from committing a similar offence.
Therein lies a connection to the 24th’s earlier history.
JY |
| | | ADMIN
Posts : 4350 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 65 Location : KENT
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:44 pm | |
| Should be brought back into the public domain. Once aweek in Trafalgar Square. Washed down with sea salt and vinegar. Not available on the NHS. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Punishment - Flogging Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:14 am | |
| Hi Pete And here my friend in Melbourne's Federation Square . 90th |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:04 am | |
| Only once while at school was I 'flogged' a large headmaster with large forearms and a nasty piece of bamboo convinced me of the folly of misdeeds. Not that it stopped me , just reinforced my determination to never get caught. |
| | | | Punishment - FLOGGING | |
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