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1879graves

1879graves

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PostSubject: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyThu Jun 30, 2011 8:14 pm

Hi All

A long time ago, Our Member 24th stated the following
Quote :
There must be documented evidence, or some other source where the flogging were recorded. It would be interesting to find out the Names, regiments and the offence these individuals committed to warrant the punishment of flogging.

I am more than happy to start a list Idea

Private 2570 Henry Gray, 2nd 4th
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Punishment Flogging.   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyFri Jul 01, 2011 3:33 am

Hi 1879Graves .
I have read a few instances of where flogging did occur , but from what I remember I dont think any names were mentioned .
I will attempt to search through some books to see if indeed there are any names and details given .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 7:43 pm

1879graves,

I don't have any names of soldiers who were flogged , but here is an entry from the diary of Henry Eason who was a Chief Petty Office and part of the naval brigade from HMS Shah.

Monday, 28 April 1879
This is a very dull day. The 57th has just flogged one of their men. There are one or two soldiers being flogged every day, while I am glad to say our men are quite a credit to the Service as to character. The commander has not had a crime brought before him yet, and I hope it will continue so. (THE DIARY OF SIGNAL BOSUN HENRY EASON” from THE NAVAL MISCELLANY, VOLUME VII)

This gives an idea of the number and frequency of incidents of flogging.

Petty Officer Tom
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Punishment Flogging.   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyWed Jul 06, 2011 9:53 am

Hi all.
This from ' Companion To The Anglo Zulu War ' by Ian Knight .
25 / 2 / 79 Pvt. Woodman 2 / 3rd Regt was given 50 lashes at Ft. Pearson for leaving his post while on sentry duty . He was flogged
by the ' Drummers ' Reilly & White . The proceedings were watched by Lt. Julius Backhouse who said '' They never hurt him at all ''
The footnote says this was from the ' Diary Of Lt. Julius Backhouse , 3rd Regt , National Army Museum .
cheers 90th.
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyWed Jul 06, 2011 7:09 pm

Hi All

The evidence for William Woodman in writing.

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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyWed Jul 06, 2011 7:54 pm

Hi All

Here is one that got away with his punishment.

Private 1252 John charles Ives, 2nd 3rd.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Punishment Flogging.   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyWed Jul 06, 2011 8:42 pm

Hi all.
I've checked a few books since my Woodman post but havent found anymore , what I did find from Ian Knights ' Companion
to the Anglo Zulu War ' that it was happening more than one would think . I'll try a few more books over the next day or so
and see what turns up. Idea
cheers 90th.
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1879graves

1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyFri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 pm

Hi All

Another one for the list.

Private 36/1431 Frank Fear. (1st 13th Regiment)

50 Lashes for Insubordination & Inappropriate Language Shocked

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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Punishment Flogging.   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyWed Jul 20, 2011 3:54 am

This also from Lewis Reynold's Diary.

15th July . Three natives of the NNC under arrest for killing two zulu's who came to give themselves up .
16th July . The men of the NNC made prisoners yesterday were tried and flogged .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyThu Aug 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Hi all!

I found an incident in “The National Army Museum Book of The Zulu War” by Ian Knight. It is from the diary of Lieutenant Julius Backhouse, 3rd Regiment (Buffs) and appears to have occurred on, or before, 9 Jan 1879.

“Privates Craney H Company and Bowman G Company flogged for drunkenness 25 lashes each, it did not affect either of them at all”

Petty Officer Tom
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyThu Aug 04, 2011 3:28 pm

On page 54 of Terry Sole's recently published book on the Colonials in the Zulu War he records that two men of the 1st King's Dragoon Guards received 50 lashes each for stealing from, and vandalising the premises of a blacksmith, who was serving in the Buffalo Border Guard. The blacksmith also received six pounds in compensation from the Colonel of the regiment.

Brett
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyFri Aug 05, 2011 7:08 pm

Hi P.O.Tom

Here is the evidence for Private Bowman.

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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Punishment - Flogging   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 5:44 am

Hi all.
Someone asked a while ago about the numbers of those flogged in the zulu war . This from ' Guidebook
to the Anglo Zulu War Battlefields ' by David Rattray & Adrian Greaves .
'' Within the british army flogging was still regularly practiced ; out of 20,000 soldiers who took part in the campaign , records reveal that 545 were flogged , with 25 lashes being the norm '' .
cheers 90th. Idea
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyFri Apr 14, 2017 4:38 pm

Hi All

Another one for the list.

Private 50B/889 Edwin Greengrass, 57th (West Middlesex) Regiment.

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John

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyMon Apr 24, 2017 10:01 am

Are there any records for the 1st /24th
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyMon Apr 24, 2017 11:06 am

Hi John

Petty Officer Tom has posted the following list.

24th Regiment Courts-Martial Summaries for 1879

Rank & Name – Date of C.M. - Location

Pte. Patrick Desmond – 2 Jan 1879 – Natal
Corpl. Thomas Roddy – 6 Jan – Durban, Natal
Pte. James Russell – 6 Jan – Durban, Natal
Pte. Edward Dillon – 27 Mar – Helpmakaar
Pte. Chales Jones – 9 Apr – Helpmakaar
Pte. William Hellett – 9 Apr – Helpmakaar
Pte. W. Lyons – 28 Apr – Dundee, Natal
Pte. W.H. Sherwing – 6 May – Dundee, Natal
Pte. O. Lewis – 6 May – Dundee, Natal
Pte. J. Davis – 3 Mar – Fort Napier, Natal
Pte. T. Sweeney – 9 May – Dundee, Natal
Pte. Thomas Berry – 9 May – Dundee, Natal
Pte. Thomas Finn – 11 Jul – Durban
Pte. Charles Mathews – 28 Jun – Camp, Zululand
Sergt. R. Pound – 3 Jul – Camp, Zululand
Corpl. T. Gauge – 3 Jul – Camp, Zululand
Drummer W. Hunt – 3 Jul – Camp, Zululand
Pte. J. McFoy – 14 Jul – Fort Napier, Natal
Pte. William Kisley – 19 Aug – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. Thomas Quinn – 19 Aug – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. John Jones – 16 Apr – Helpmakaar, South Africa
Pte. J. Beresford – 18 Sep – Cape Town
Pte H. Watkins – 18 Sep – Cape Town
Pte. F. Scott – 22 Aug – Landsman Drift, Natal
Pte. John Wall – 16 Aug – Landsman Drift, Natal
Pte. J. Walsh – 20 Oct – Fort Napier, Natal
Pte. J. Churchill – 1 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. J. Finn – 1 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. J Sheridan – 30 Oct – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. J. Lloyd – 30 Oct – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. L. Monaghan – 3 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. W. Ormond – 3 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. (Lnce. Corpl.) – P. Delahunty – 4 Nov -Pinetown, Natal
Corpl. William Bessell – 25 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte (Lnce. Crpl.) Joseph Morris – 20 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. William Jackson – 20 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. William Wilcox – 25 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. J. Spillacy – 10 Nov – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. C. Doyle – 29 Dec – Pinetown, Natal
Pte. J. Finn – 29 Dec – Pinetown, Natal

Petty Officer Tom
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyTue Apr 25, 2017 10:53 pm

Graves, where's that David Jenkins fellow who claim"s to have been at Rorkes Drift. I'm sure he was punished for desertion or similar.
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyWed Apr 26, 2017 6:54 pm

Hi Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Here is David Jenkins record but no floggings

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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySat May 13, 2017 10:19 am

Hi All

Another one for the list.

This chap was flogged twice.

Private 844 John Hogg, 90th (Perthshire Volunteers Light Infantry) Regiment.

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90th

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PostSubject: Punishment Flogging    Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySun May 14, 2017 5:57 am

Andy I wonder if his nickname was ' Noddy ' !! Shocked Shocked Shocked
90th Salute
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySat Nov 07, 2020 9:12 am

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Danny1960

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySat Nov 07, 2020 7:11 pm

I just wonder what this done for morale of the soldiers, I appreciate that for desertion of duty etc, then punishment would be required, but does it really raise moral when the offender is publicly flogged in front of his fellow men...? Not sure it achieved much really
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90th

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PostSubject: Punishment - Flogging    Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySun Nov 08, 2020 12:01 pm

Danny who knows what it did for morale ? , the soldiers would've been well aware of flogging , and what you did to receive it . Impossible to apply todays thinking and standards in 1879 .
90th
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySun Nov 08, 2020 12:47 pm

To quote Voltaire in his novel Candide on the execution of Admiral John Byng, ‘...encourager les autres.’ - to encourage the others. In effect to discourage those who bear witness to the punishment from committing a similar offence.

Therein lies a connection to the 24th’s earlier history.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptySun Nov 08, 2020 8:44 pm

Should be brought back into the public domain.
Once aweek in Trafalgar Square. Washed down with sea salt and vinegar. Not available on the NHS.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Punishment - Flogging    Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyMon Nov 09, 2020 2:14 am

Hi Pete
And here my friend in Melbourne's Federation Square .
90th
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Punishment - FLOGGING   Punishment - FLOGGING EmptyMon Nov 09, 2020 10:04 am

Only once while at school was I 'flogged' a large headmaster with large forearms and a nasty piece of bamboo convinced me of the folly of misdeeds. Not that it stopped me , just reinforced my determination to never get caught.
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