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» What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?
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» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
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 Quarter-Master William London

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xhosa2000
Drummer Boy 14
90th
littlehand
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littlehand

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Quarter-Master William London  Empty
PostSubject: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptySun Aug 14, 2016 10:27 pm

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Quarter-Master William London of the Natal Carbineers, killed at the Battle of Isandlwana. (KZN Archives, Pietermaritzburg)
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90th

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PostSubject: Qtr Mstr W.London N.C.   Quarter-Master William London  EmptyMon Aug 15, 2016 3:51 am

This is probably on here but some info on W.London from ' For God , Queen & Colony ' by Terry Sole .
KIA Isandlwana 22/1/79 . London's body was found in the camp of the 1/ 24th , shot in the head whilst opening an Ammunition box .London was with the Carbineers as a trooper at the Coronation of Cetchwayo and was at Bushman's Pass during the Langalibalele Rebellion . Age about 30 . Bookseller of Pietermaritzburg . Left a Widow and three children .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyMon Aug 15, 2016 10:22 pm

agree
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyMon Oct 23, 2017 10:23 pm

I know this is an old topic but is there any reference to Quarter-Master London during the battle ? i seem to remember hearing he was wounded as Snook mentions it in his book but he doesn't provide a source scratch

Cheers for any help
Sam Salute
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 1:08 am

I like the question.. and will go to what we know. Snook..
forget it, you have, i know been around this subject many
year's.. the lack of even adequate footnote's is a real
problem!. the point being he could never have substantiated
that authoritative narrative once challenged, i'm afraid his
work will ultimately be discounted through the sheer partizan
and wholly slanted view in favour of the ' regt ' not unlike a
predecessor of his William Penn Symons.. any wouldbe serious
historian/researcher would stress and insist on comprehensive
footnotes on anything purporting to be a serious academic work.
Not.. really not having a go at the author.. i hope all we know
about William is forthcoming. cheers xhosa2000
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 7:36 am

IK mentions him being wounded, but again no source mentioned.
The incident is taken from Barker;' Poor London, the quartermaster, had been struck by a stray bullet, but not badly wounded."
Stalker. pp111 describes the discovery of his body on the 26th June

Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Qtr Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 9:12 am

All
Please see my earlier post near the top of the page .
90th agree
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 9:32 am

Hi Gary
I saw your post but I cant find the source for the 'shot in the head' apart from Terry Sole. Still looking.
Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Qtr Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 9:46 am

Hi Frank
Obviously Terry doesn't mention the source as I would've mentioned so . I wonder from who the comment was attributed , would be interesting .
90th Shocked
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 10:35 am

Ive been through most of the statements and cant locate it. Barker seems to be the main source but he describes it as a minor wound, and nothing to do with the head. I will keep on trying to chase it down.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 11:31 am

Thanks very much for the replies Frank, Gary, xhosa2000 Very Happy

Cheers
Sam
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90th

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PostSubject: Qtr Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 11:54 am

Hi Frank
I've found sources in Stalker and Zulu Victory attributing a minor wound to London from Tpr Barker .
90th agree
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 12:39 pm

Hi Gary
Those are the ones Ive come up with as well. But now for the ultimate........ TWOTS.
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90th

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PostSubject: Qtr Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Oct 24, 2017 12:41 pm

I checked the Index didnt see London mentioned.
90th You need to study mo
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptySat Nov 11, 2017 9:46 am

Hi Everyone Page 136 of Saul David's Heroism and Tragedy book

Trooper Sparks NMP
"I notice quarter-master London of the natal Carbineers opening one of these boxes and he was killed by a bullet wound in the head while doing so."

Cheers
Sam
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptySat Nov 11, 2017 10:36 am

S yet again iSandlwana throws up a mystery.
If Barker is correct London was only wounded, theres an intimation, of sorts attached to that. Barker saw or was aware of London after the wounding, had to be or he wouldn't have known about it. But Sparks if definite, London was killed.
So are we possibly looking at two separate occurences that London was hit by over shots twice? First a wound then mortality? Seems he was a remarkably unlucky man..................or Sparks was wrong/ overheard the wrong conversation Could Barker have been wrong?
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptySat Nov 11, 2017 12:11 pm

Sparks says that this occurred at a late stage in the battle after the fall back from the Donga so it is very possible he was hit twice and carried on opening ammunition boxes.
However 2 quarter-masters Bloomfield and London being shot in the head is extremely unlucky.
Then again the Zulu's did have thousands of guns and no doubt London was high atop a wagon meaning he would be more exposed to the shots going high as Bloomfield was.

Another Good mystery

Sam
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyWed Nov 15, 2017 10:42 am

Sam
London would not have been "high atop a waggon".  Boxes would have been unloaded to the ground and opened there (having already been partially opened/loosened in readiness).
There would have been bullets flying all over the battlefield in the later stages of the battle and from all directions (cf. Essex).
I am sure many men on both sides were hit in the camp area by stray rounds.
There will be more on London to follow.
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyWed Nov 15, 2017 1:01 pm

Thanks for the correction Julian think i had Snook's account in my head, i look forward to the info about London :)

Sam
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyWed Nov 15, 2017 1:58 pm

When trying to wrote creatively I endeavour to keep all other historians' accounts (even the beloved FWDJ's) out of my head.
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyTue Jul 31, 2018 6:07 pm

Sold at Spinks last week. Price about what you would expect I suppose.
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Steve Reinstadtler
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90th

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PostSubject: Qtr Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptyThu Aug 02, 2018 11:31 am

Hi Steve
Went for what I thought it may go for , no surprise , wouldn't have been surprised if it was a tad more to be honest .
90th Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Quarter-Master William London    Quarter-Master William London  EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm

90th wrote:
This is probably on here but some info on W.London from  ' For God , Queen & Colony ' by Terry Sole .
KIA Isandlwana 22/1/79 . London's body was found in the camp of the 1/ 24th , shot in the head whilst opening an Ammunition box .London was with the Carbineers as a trooper at the Coronation of Cetchwayo and was at Bushman's Pass during the Langalibalele Rebellion . Age about 30 . Bookseller of Pietermaritzburg . Left a Widow and three children .
90th


"William London was killed in action at Isandhlwana on 22 January 1879. He appears in various accounts of the action, some of them of an eye-witness nature. Trooper Sparks of the Natal Mounted Police is quoted in Saul David’s Zulu: the Heroism and Tragedy of the Zulu War of 1879:
‘I noticed Quarter-Master London of the Natal Carbineers opening one of these [ammunition] boxes and he was killed by a bullet wound in the head while doing so.’
London had earlier been with the Carbineers at Cetchwayo’s coronation and was present at Bushman’s Pass during the Langalibalele Rebellion. By profession a book seller from Pietermaritzburg, he left a widow and three children."
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