Film Zulu Quote:Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast..
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Well your book is full of maps, photos, and testimony's which I love, but you have concluded the discovery took place in the historical location I would have loved some hard proof so I can follow up on it, I agree with the location of the rocket battery and the vast majority of the rest. But I would love to say your dedication to the battle and the study of it is unsurpassed, good work mate.
I really love the 90 plus pages of testimony's their is no other book with such an extensive range of eye witness points of views.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8218 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Thanks Inky The discovery is a whole new ballgame the level of speculation ( I know your going to REALLY disagree ) is huge in trying to pin that down. We both have our suspicions but proving it to any degree is currently beyond our reach. Ron and Pete have tried and produced an outstanding thesis but still the prophets of doom cast doubt. In terms of the testimony's Ive only published those that I have quoted from. Just wait till you see the two volumes coming from Mike and Neil, literally 100's. Those books are going to blow your mind.
Cheers Mate
WeekendWarrior
Posts : 230 Join date : 2017-07-21 Location : San Diego, CA
Frank, thanks for the shout out! Aussie, I think you'll be quite excited to see what we've produced. I'm notoriously bad at responding to emails but if you need any specific accounts, please feel free to badger me and I'll send them your way!
aussie inkosi
Posts : 371 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 56 Location : MELBOURNE
Mike When will your 2 volumes be on the market ? thanks for your offer I will email you with some names, I am hoping to have my website online by the end of the year trying to get permission to publish some works are proving to be a headache.
Frank There should be no speculation when I began my research 3 years ago I was hoping to find clear eyewitness testimony which I believe I have the issue is people will always question it as goes with interpretation and some clear errors in some testimony's.
The reason prophets of doom cast doubt is because its in all our nature to protect our conclusions, but fair understanding of the testimony should prove itself and when it confirms it, several times over again then doubt should be removed.
In my opinion The Missing five Hours is a masterpiece which credit is due its just missing a few links which will shortly be solved. Well then its up to those to interpret in the way they wish but eyewitness testimony should be the highest standard one should reach to be excepted by the experts and by the lay.
lfmcgee4
Posts : 1 Join date : 2022-01-11
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:34 am
First post… but I couldn’t resist after I just received a copy in the US. The book looks amazing. Thank you Frank for all of your hard work putting this together. Lee
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:11 am
AUSSIE Here's the thing... "clear eye-witness testimony" is of its nature CLEAR. If it is open to interpretation then it is not clear and cannot be used to establish the truth and "clear errors in testimonies" have to be proven beyond doubt in order to become accepted as erroneous and "fair understanding" does not constitute proof and certainly does not provide "confirmation" of suggested events or reasoning. and The Missing Five Hours whilst it can be applauded in some areas, it cannot be in others through its inconsistencies, selective use of evidence, and misquotations. As such it is flawed as an historical work and does not constitute "a masterpiece".
aussie inkosi
Posts : 371 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 56 Location : MELBOURNE
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:47 am
Julian
You and I believe in the same location of the discovery the only thing we differ is the location of Barkers discovery your half way there, the other half will take a little longer.
Hi Lee. Hope you enjoy. Always happy to answer any questions. My e mail address is right up front if you would prefer. Ive been told that there is to much speculation, but surely most modern works are to a degree speculative. Its really why Ive said in the introduction that the solutions I offer will not satisfy everyone but will promote some discussion. Julian I do admire Ron and Pete in putting together TMFHT. Again, speculative to a large degree and yes there are different ways to interpret what they have quoted but look at the huge amount of discussion and exchanges that have taken place because of it. Its really for having the courage to step outside the box that I do applaud them both. Heck David Jackson did exactly the same with his initial 'Sources'. And yes it was brilliantly backed up but it went against convention at the time. Aussie C'mon mate youve been playing with that web site for long enough, we were talking about it in Rorkes Drift at the 140th visit, time to get it out. Cheers
Frank Missing Five Hours - admirable yes, ambitious, yes, laudable, yes, but right?
aussie inkosi
Posts : 371 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 56 Location : MELBOURNE
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:39 am
Frank
Taking the photos does not take much time but the research took me forever, I tried to back all my findings with eyewitness testimony, even by doing that people will still question it, I am not to much worried what people may say, when I first emailed you my findings I said then I know I am right and I look at other possibilities nothing made sense until I found that hill. In all the books of Isandlwana I have read very few if any mentions in detail Barkers find none has even located the hill, I remember asking you years back, I know deep down where the Zulu where discovered and can back it up.
Julian but right ? YES they found maps not fakes that locate the discovery why it took 130 years to find I do not know. The Location on those Maps you agree with that was the main point of the thesis.
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:55 am
AUSSIE True, they did find the additional maps but that was not the main point of the essay. Surely that was the notion of the supposed Zulu decoy.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8218 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:17 am
Hi Julian I would agree about the 'enticement' section but the army location is a different aspect. INKI and I have very similar ideas as to that. What is of interest is when we did our ground survey nothing was found on the ridge at Mabaso. Our first lot of hits were some distance south of the main road,22 seperate pings. It does of course mean little as between there and the base of Mabaso a lot of road works and farming has taken place over the years. But climbing up Mabaso again nothing other than the residue of Coke cans etc. Draw from that what you will. Cheers
Subject: Re: Isandlwana solving the enigma Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:39 am
In mine and David's 'Durnford Papers essay' (1990) we made the point that the 'X' is very much the location from where the Zulus were first seen rather than where the Zulus were first found to be. I'm sure that's valid, don't you think? When Ron found the additional maps we exchanged long e-mails with one another discussing the variance between a vaguish point marked on a map and the actual location on the ground and the meaning of the 'X' and he was also of that opinion.
The decoy yes TMFH implies Chelmsford was decoyed out but as you know through my research I have concluded it was Durnford, frankly it was only by accident the Zulu knew the British were at Mangeni if it was true that Chelmsford was decoyed out they would have placed scouts all along the high ground to give them early warning. It was the sound of gunfire coming from Mangeni that alarmed the Zulu that the British divided and that happened sometime after 7am over 3 hours after Chelmsford left the camp.
Aussie We have been discussing the 'masterpiece' epithet which you applied to L&Q's work and asserted was the main point of their essay. 1. L&Q's main thrust was in fact the Chelmsford decoy which we know was wrong. 2. By finding the additional maps L&Q also reinforced the X on the Chatham maps in the Durnford Papers but this was not the main point behind their essay.
As a separate matter your last post suggests that the Zulus decoyed Durnford, not Chelmsford, which as you know I utterly reject for the reasons given in our private e-mailing. This is not something it would be fair to go into now as (a) it has nothing to do with this thread and (b) you have not had a chance to pursue all the sources, put all your thoughts in order, and place them in the public domain.
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