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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
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» What happened next
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» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
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» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
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» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
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» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
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» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
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» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
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» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
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» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
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» England's Sons 9th edition
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» Strange tales from Isandlwana
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» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
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» Militaria Sale
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» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
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 Aerial Photos of iSandlwana

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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7578
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Aerial Photos of iSandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyWed Apr 09, 2014 3:53 pm

A couple of shots from different angles.
The photos of the Western face are good in that they show the cairns from Shepstones stand and also his own grave.
The Western Face
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Shepstones cairns
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An unusual view looking from the Northern end of the mountain to the South.
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Cheers
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7578
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyWed Apr 09, 2014 5:56 pm

Nice one Steve. The Haze was the smoke from 1000 Martini Henry.  Very Happy 
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24th foot

24th foot

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PostSubject: Marvellous photos. Thank you very much. Particularly enjoyable for those of who haven' t been there yet.   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyWed Apr 09, 2014 7:29 pm

springbok9 wrote:
A couple of shots from different angles.
The photos of the Western face are good in that they show the cairns from Shepstones stand and also his own grave.
The Western Face
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Shepstones cairns
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An unusual view looking from the Northern end of the mountain to the South.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Cheers
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Ray63

Ray63

Posts : 708
Join date : 2012-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyWed Apr 09, 2014 8:19 pm

Great Photo's. I take it they were taken from an hot air balloon.

It always amazes me how far from from the hill, the men were.

Am I right in assuming the men were actually further out and fell back to where the cains are depliting the spot where they supposedly fell?
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyWed Apr 09, 2014 9:08 pm

Ray
Look at the very first photo I posted. To the left of the mountain is a short line of trees. Extend that in an imaginaru line at the same angle, skirting the edge of the village then right down to the distant clump of trees. That was the defence line approx. The distant clump of trees is Durnfords Donga

Cheers
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyWed Apr 09, 2014 9:25 pm

Why were they sent so far from the camp, what was the thinking behind it ?????
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 7:02 am

CTSG
Unfortunatly we tend to look at all that space going back to the mountain as just that, empty space. In reality it was filled with the camp, wagons tents etc. The rocky ridge in front of the camp, for want of a better name, The Eastern Front, was a natural defensive line, good cover and looking down at the enemy charge. The left or Northern Front was forced by the withdrawl of the companies from the ridge, until the gradual withdrawl that is. The donga as we know was the point chosen by Col Durnford as his defensive point, there was one higher, more towards the camp, an extension of the Rocky Ridge. Personal viewpoint is that if he had chosen that one then the right flank would have been a touch more secure and able to get ammunition supply faster. All a mute point.
90th is on his way back to Aussie now. It will be interesting to get his informed take on the situation once hes over his jet lag.

Cheers
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 6:48 pm

Still the one and only deciding factor, that sealed the fate of the British that day was the locality of the ammuntion. That being to far to replenish and supply!
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 6:55 pm

That was just a small part of the perfect storm ! Shocked 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 7:00 pm

Ian Knight
John Laband
Benjamin Coupland
Ron Lock
Peter Quantrill
Keith Smith
Mike Snook
David Rattray
Adrian Greaves
David Payne

Just a couple of people that disagree with you impi.

Cheers
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 9:16 pm

Good point. However it has been said many, many times that if the British and Colonial soldiers had, and enough ammuntion, they would have won the day. In the eyes of the officers that located the various companies around the battlefield must have been viewed as tactically correct. But in all the excitement they seemed to have forgotten, rifles aren't much good without ammuntion. Bullets run out, those bloody spears don't ?
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 10:16 pm

I think the Ammunition question
has been put to bed now since
Jackson! the old mythology's have
been challenged, and new perspect-
ive's have evolved a different under-
standing of the Battle as a whole!

In my opinion i have to say again, if,
each man had had is own plentiful
supply..surely the result would have
remained the same, i urge on all two
critical factors..the motivation of the
beleaguered nation! and the clincher!
22.000 v 1500!, its naive and ultimately
embarrassing to forgo the Zulu their
stunning victory..
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 10:47 pm

What would you consider a plentiful supply? We know there was plenty of ammuntion at the camp, just not available to the troops.
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyThu Apr 10, 2014 11:15 pm

This battle in the crucial phase happened so damn
fast, i'm talking 12.30 to 1.30..to put it crudely..if
each man had his box of ammo at his feet! it would
not of mattered much, the best could only fire 12
rounds a minute! they simply ran out of time..and
was annihilated by overwhelming force.
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:14 am

They could have had an ammuntion box each, at their feet! Problem was, the boxes were just to far away.
But your right about the rate of fire!
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:37 am

"If the 24th did indeed hit their targets with every shot, the 600-odd men of the 24th in the firing line would have killed the entire Zulu army in 34 volleys!"  agree 
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90th

90th

Posts : 10130
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Aerial Photos of Isandlwana    Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:44 am

Hi All
I've flogged this horse as much as one can in regard to the firing line at Isandlwana , as I've said on my earlier posts , ages ago , the line
was so far from camp for several reasons , one of which and the main one is the fact that there is a lot of dead ground on the plain in front of the camp , they had to be so far out to negate the zulu from using this dead ground , also as Springy has alluded to , its fact that the tented area was also on the plain extending out across it . I saw the full extent of the dead ground issue this week , but I knew it was a major factor in the formation of the defensive line , there is a community in front of Isandlwana mountain that you can see quite clearly from an elevated position , but , when you are in the camp area you CAN'T SEE this community / village , not shouting , emphasizing .
Les .
Your figure of 1500 is about right as we know , dont forget that those 1500 weren't all armed with Rifles ! , nearly a third if not more of those in the camp were NNC with only 1 rifle per 10 men and only 5 or 10 rounds from memory , also quite a few of the Imperial men were'nt frontline soldiers , cooks , butchers etc etc . So at a pinch , let's say there were about 600 front line troops
which were never going to win the day no matter what they did or what they had in their pouches .
Cheers 90th
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:47 am

Hi springy.

Great piccies, and Steve did a good job making them clearer.

So, Gary is on his way home, I hope he didn't leave his camera in SA  Very Happy 

The ammo question just won't go away, people will always wonder about it, however, the defenders were vastly outnumbered by the Zulu's, and because neither LC nor Pulleine had organised any proper defences (as per order by LC himself), they where overwhelmed by numbers.
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:52 am

Hello Gary mate,

Nice to have you back me old wombat, hope you really enjoyed your trip to Zululand.

I was just going to sign off and go to the land of nod, then when I posted the above post I noticed yours.

We will have to have a good nattter buddy, but you must be tired and I am dropping off, so we will have to PM each other another time.

Hope you are well pal, and hope that you got some good piccies.

All the best Gary.

 Salute 
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Aerial Photos of Isandlwana    Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:59 am

Hi Martin
I am home , I landed nearly 5 hrs ago , surprised I'm still awake ! , I cant sleep on planes . We left Isandlwana at 8.30 am wed morning , then had an 11 hr bus trip to J'burg ! , courtesy of road works from Newcastle up until the motorway , one of the guys just made his Swissair flight with only a few minutes to spare , the English party had about 30 mins to spare , I had to sit at the airport for nearly 4 hrs before I left ! , then had a 7 hr trip to Dubai , then another 2 - 3 hour wait before the 12 hr flight to Melb !  No   No . I cant speak any more highly of how the trip was run , it was excellent , luckily I did the Hlobane walk which is about 11 k's from memory , and did the Fugitives Trail which is about 7 or 8 K's , otherwise I would've porked up considerably ! , 3 courses for dinner every night , and Buffet's on many instances , as was most of the breakfasts !  Salute 
Cheers 90th  Very Happy 
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Aerial Photo's of Isandlwana    Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 1:02 am

Hi Springy
When were those aerial shots taken as I can tell you there is a lot more vegetation around the western side now ? .
I was up there the other day , and then walked around the scree slope to Younghusband's , then onto ' The Cave ' , but as you are aware there is indeed several caves on the mountain ! .  Salute 
Cheers 90th
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 7:51 am

Morning 90th
Trust you enjoyed the flight and got in lots of reading on the way home. Mrs 90th no doubt glad you got back safe and sound. And I do hope you enjoyed my wonderful country. I did notice that the shares in the local brewery had gone up quite drastically over the last week!  Very Happy 
The photos were taken last year when the mountain was pretty denuded, that's when I got all my Shepstone photos, and I must just tell you that it was a bloody long ladder as well !
Look forward to all your photos when your feet touch the ground in a few weeks.

Cheers Mate and welcome back. Did you get your shield and spear by the way?
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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 10:47 am

Les .
Your figure of 1500 is about right as we know , dont forget that those 1500 weren't all armed with Rifles ! , nearly a third if not more of those in the camp were NNC with only 1 rifle per 10 men and only 5 or 10 rounds from memory , also quite a few of the Imperial men were'nt frontline soldiers , cooks , butchers etc etc . So at a pinch , let's say there were about 600 front line troops
which were never going to win the day no matter what they did or what they had in their pouches .
Cheers 90th..

 agree  welcome back Gary!.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Aerial Photo's Of Isandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 12:43 pm

Hi Springy
I'm glad I'm back safe and sound , not sure about Mrs 90th LOL. The vegetation grows quickly in your neck of the woods ! .
When I was out with Ken Gillings a couple of weeks ago he showed me a photo of Gingindlovhu , the Sugar Cane had been cut in early January and it was easy to see the battlefield , I was hoping it'd be the same for us , but , unfortunately not , there was new Sugar Cane growing although it was only 3 - 4 feet high it was surrounded by 6-7 feet high Cane . Damn !  Salute . I was up at 5am for the 4 days I spent at Isandlwana and had 3 excellent sunrises , the sunsets being just as good I can tell you . I may see if I can put my photos on a disc and send them to Pete to mull over , as you are aware I'm off next friday , this time with Mrs 90th  Salute 

PS . Did manage to get a stabbing spear circa 1910 - 20 , Ian Knight also verified it at that date . There was another I could've got but it was very expensive , but , it , according to Ian was certainly in the 1879 Time frame , it was a lot to spend if I didnt get it through , will try for it next year , if it's still available !. I doubt I can get a shield in here because of our anal aversion to hides or untreated leather , it would cost me a lot to have it tested , which makes it an expensive exercise !
Cheers 90th
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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Location : KENT

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PostSubject: Re: Aerial Photos of iSandlwana   Aerial Photos of iSandlwana EmptyFri Apr 11, 2014 6:38 pm

90th Glad your back safe and sound. Regarding the photo's save them to your computer desktop. Email them, it's quicker. But get yourself sorted first.  agree 
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