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| | The Fortification of Rorkes Drift | |
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+6xhosa2000 Kenny ymob nthornton1979 rusteze Frank Allewell 10 posters | Author | Message |
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Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:36 am | |
| The Fortification of Rorke’s Drift
At around three in the afternoon various refugees from the battle of iSandlwana started to appear at the mission buildings manned by B Company 2/24th Regiment under the command of lt Gonville Bromhead. At A similar time two other fugitives arrived on the banks of the river opposite the workings of lt John Chard RE. Lt Chard rode to the camp to find that activities to fortify were already under way. As senior officer present he concurred with the decisions taken and after taking precautions at the punts proceeded to assist in those presentations. When the NNC abandoned the small command Chard ordered the splitting of the ‘fort’ into two with a cross wall.
So history tells us began the defence of Rorke’s Drift an action that was to go down in the annals of history as a great British Victory, albeit on the heels of a great British defeat. Historians have since extolled the contributions of Acting Commissary James Langley Dalton generally at the expense of Gonville Bromhead the man labelled as an ‘unconquerable indolent’ and ‘capital at everything except soldiering’. From these descriptions of him by Francis Clery history has tended to put his contributions to the battle preparations as secondary. However this from the manuscript of Penn Symons tends to obviate those descriptions:
“Lieutenant Bromhead stated to me that on the 10th January when he and his company to their intense disappointment were ordered to remain behind and occupy and guard Rorke’s Drift Commissariat Store and Base Hospital, he twice asked permission to place the post in a state of defence, but that sanction was refused him by Lord Chelmsford’s Staff. Afterwards when the Column had moved on, he became so persuaded of the sick and danger of inaction that he made up his mind what to do if occasion should arrive. Hence followed on the sudden alarm, the promptness and correctness of his preparations, which had the warm approval of lieutenant Chard, an Officer of the Royal Engineers.”
Penn Symons goes onto describe the preparation and give measurements of the distances involved and then carries on with:
“(Lt Chard)………made the best of his way back to where Lieutenant Bromhead and Acting Commissariat Officer Dalton were doing their utmost to make the post defensible.”
Chard and Bourne’s sketches of ‘the fort’ show two wagons in the rear wall Penn Symons describes it as three with their wheels interlocked and below sacks of grain and boxes packed. I mention this to show that just because it’s written down in history doesn’t necessarily show its correctness. Caution always has to be taken.
It seems History has treated Gonville Bromhead, in spite of a VC, with a touch or hardness.
Frank Allewell Cape Town 2016/08/11
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| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:58 pm | |
| It is interesting that "Historical Records of 24th" (jointly edited by Penn Symons) relies on Chard's official despatch to describe events at RD. In the light of what we now read from PS it is possible to see that Chard in fact gives a "nod" to Bromhead's active roll in organising the defence.
Having ridden up to the camp from the ponts, Chard says "Lt. Bromhead was most actively engaged in barricading the store buildings and hospital, and connecting the defence of the two buildings by walls of mealie-bags and two waggons that were on the ground." He goes on to say that Dalton was "superintending" the works of defence". Penn Symons manuscript lets us better understand that while Dalton was "superintending", Bromhead was directing the defence to a much greater degree than history has recognised.
Useful insight.
Steve |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:05 pm | |
| That's my reading as well Steve. Interesting that Bromhead had already worked things out in advance, crucial considering the timing but just surprising he wasn't given more credit instead of being written of as a bit of a dozy character. |
| | | nthornton1979
Posts : 154 Join date : 2011-01-18 Age : 44 Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:25 pm | |
| Hi Frank,
I fully agree that Bromhead has had a bit of a raw deal. It is often assumed that, before Dalton stepped up and asserted they should stay put, Bromhead had made up his mind to abandon RD in favour of moving back to Helpmekaar. Excuse the plug but I cover this in my book and point out that there is not one single [known] source showing that Bromhead ever gave such an order. What we do have is a number of confused and contradictory sources which state things like 'the general feeling' was to retire. This is a far cry from Gonny giving any order, or deciding to do so.
Another angle to consider is the fact that it is highly unlikely that Bromhead would have made any definitive decision without first consulting with Chard.
On top of this I have found a further source from an eye witness [apologies for being vague here] which describes the moment that Bromhead heard the news of the disaster. This too makes no suggestion that he flapped or wanted to retire. In fact, it goes on to say that, when Bromhead found out, he shouted for the men to 'Stand to Arms' before spreading them out in skirminsh order by the hospital. Shortly after this, Dalton walked across and put his idea forward that they fortify the position.
I'm totally with you that he's been hard done to. That's why I devote an Appendix to this very issue. Hopefully this will become more widely accepted.
On another note - whilst mulling over PS's comments about Bromhead requesting permission to fortify the post - I assume that the 'reinforcements' were G Company, who were due to guard the ponts. I wondered if Bromhead, when requesting to 'fortify the post' actually meant to fortify the high ground by the ponts, the mission station, or both? Whatever the case, it is clear that the security of the 'post' was an immediate concern as soon as he was informed that he'd be staying behind. Obviously he wasn't as stupid as some would have us believe.
Neil
Neil
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| | | nthornton1979
Posts : 154 Join date : 2011-01-18 Age : 44 Location : Runcorn, Cheshire, UK
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:28 pm | |
| Frank,
email inbound ...
Neil
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| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:21 pm | |
| Thanks Neil Got the e mail and responded. I would find it hard to disagree with your comments, looking forward to the book arriving.
Regards |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:37 am | |
| Bonjour, Two remarks:
Clery: Clery has been also very critical about Glyn although he seemed to defend him during the blame game. The question of his hidden motivations is open. I think he defended in reality his own reputation.
About the fortification of RD; There is this intriguing comment by Harford in"Zulu war journal" (p.16): " On the 11th january the 3rd column crossed the buffalo into Zululand... a little abovethe main drift, known as RD after the Dutchman Jim Rorke, whose house and farm buildings were occupied by us as Fort, after being entrenched." Cheers Frédéric |
| | | Kenny
Posts : 588 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:29 am | |
| When I first saw copies of the sketches/watercolours undertaken by WW Lloyd of the camp at Helpmekaar, these did suggest that attempts had been to fortify this camp prior to 22 January. My conclusion was that similar defensive preparations must have been made at RD prior to 22 January. These were then reinforced and improved on 22 January once the possible Zulu attack was more certain. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:35 am | |
| Always about Clery, there is a parallel between his harsh comments towards Bromhead and Gardner. Ultimately, Gardner did not get the VC and Clery is partly responsible. In these conditions, its comments about the personality of Bromhead (and Chard) must be assessed with a pinch of salt. It's just an opinion. Regards |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:42 am | |
| Read in the same direction, the comments from Wolseley about Chard and Bromhead (and Jones, R.E. / about Chard): jealousy. The Queen Victoria, who has twice received Chard (from memory) enjoyed obviously the personality of Chard |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:02 am | |
| With a touch of insider knowledge, Im sure that Neil explores those issues Frederic in his new book.
Regards |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:12 am | |
| My friend, Do you touch a premium for each book sold by Neil? (it's a joke of course). Regards. I.E: Gary wrote on this forum a similar comment about Neil's book |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:31 am | |
| Morning Frederic But of course, he pays me a fortune. Cheers |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:32 am | |
| Actually Frederic we were discussing this exact thing last night, that's how I know.
Cheers |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:36 am | |
| Frank, you are alredy a "rewarding" man for all the members of this forum (I'm not sure that this makes sense in English). I.E: After reflection, I think I understood the meaning of your previous message. Sorry for Neil. Regards Frédéric |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:49 am | |
| I hope that this night discussion between you and Neil has inflected your opinion about Clery ( I.E: the dogma of his moral honesty and integity)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:07 am | |
| Ha ha, you already know my opinion of Clery. Fine upstanding professor. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:29 am | |
| Oh, oh! In the past the subject (about Clery) was approached through several threats. when I attend a course of my Professor, I always listen carrefully what he told. It seems you lose memory!! Regards. Frédéric |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:36 am | |
| A ah so history reverts to attack me. For the record, I believe that Clery was indeed a fine professor of tactics, a gossip and scandal monger of the first order, but at heart a gentleman of his generation with the loyalties that went with it. So mon ami, no change of heart Im afraid.
Cheers |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:46 am | |
| Opinion consistent with your previous writings on the subject ...
Regards frédéric |
| | | xhosa2000
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:39 pm | |
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| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:42 pm | |
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| | | John Young
Posts : 3241 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:22 pm | |
| Littlehand,
That is from a Look and Learn magazine.
Try a search on their staff artists.
I'll have a dig through over the weekend and see if I can find the copy I have.
John Y.
Last edited by John Young on Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
| | | xhosa2000
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:58 pm | |
| As usual JY is correct!. the image below is from the 1973 Look and Learn Annual..printed in 1972. and below it the image purport's to depict the Battle of Kambula, i include that because it is a strong image of a little mentioned crucial event in the AZW. Littlehand, i have no idea who the artist is.. the book gives no accreditation to any of the artists. just a thank you in passing to the people who produced the weekly periodical.no names..trust you JY, how many other people would have known where that image was from.. i, was not surprised you did. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: The Fotification Of Rorke's Drift Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:01 am | |
| Hi Xhosa I know the caption states Kambula , but to me its more suited to Hlobane ! , as you are aware its very flat around kambula , no boulders to speak of like in this drawing . This could quite easily have been captioned '' The Retreat From Hlobane '' ! 90th |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:03 am | |
| The caption could be describing Ulundi, so a pictorial for all seasons. |
| | | xhosa2000
Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:37 am | |
| Morning Frank, 90th.. i agree with you both, i thought the Kambula image was Hlobane when i first saw it, or even an incident from a later skirmish like against the Matabele.. yeah Frank, the caption sounded like the Battle of Ulundi to me!. stirring images all the same i think. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: The Fotification Of Rorke's Drift Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:26 pm | |
| I know what you are saying Frank but the ground doesn't look like that of Ulundi to me . Possibly the skirmish area of the 3rd July at the White Mfolozi could pass for that terrain . 90th |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:14 pm | |
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| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2590 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:40 am | |
| Well, if you think that history has given poor old Bromhead a raw deal (which it has), then just think what a lousy deal 'the film' gave to the mainly Englishmen of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment by turning them and their regiment into taffies. And to add insult to injury and rub salt into the open wounds, others, including authors, broadcasters and so called 'historians' who should know better, have gone along with this 'welsh' nonsense by churning out stuff about it being a 'welsh' outfit and further adding to this myth, and therefore conning the gullible public into believing that it was. Baker and the dirty tricks brigade have really dealt a very raw deal to the memory of the brave Englishmen and the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment that defended RD.
In 'the film', Bromhead is portrayed as an upper class twit, while of course Baker portrayed himself as the brains with the guts, the hero behind the defence of RD, Dalton is portrayed as a la di da twonk, and Hook is portrayed as a drunken, ne'er do well wastrel, no wonder his family walked out in disgust. As much as 'the film' has become a 'classic', it is so far from the truth that it is mostly fiction, and it should be remade to give the public a better understanding, and give back the honour and glory of the defence of RD to the mostly Englishmen and their regiment, the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Fortification of Rorkes Drift Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:32 pm | |
| "There is a parson here who was at Rorke's Drift battle and he behaved very well from all accounts. Chard is the fellow to whom most praise is due - as Bromhead's idea was to go into the open to fight and of course they would all have been chewed up in 5 minutes..."
Extract from the letters of Major P.R. Anstruther, 94th Regiment, 1879-1880 - National Army Museum |
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