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'Ah! Those red soldiers at Isandlwana, how few they were, and how they fought! They fell like stones-each man in his place
 
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Battle of Isandlwana 1879 with Historian Dr David Rattray
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 Rorkes Drift Battle Relics

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Dunmore



Posts : 3
Join date : 2019-08-09

Rorkes Drift Battle Relics Empty
PostSubject: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 5:54 pm

Hi all I have just joined this forum
I came across this forum the other day whilst browsing Rorkes Drift Relics, I have owned a framed Rorke's Drift battle relic frame display and wondered if it is worth much money. I have owned it for over 20 years but has been stored in a cupboard, so it may be time to sell it on?

The display has a red backing and hold 3 martini bullet, 3 fired martini cartridges, 3 fired end of martini cartridges, 1 fired enfield end of cartridge. 1 british general service button, 1 looks like a small horse shoe but probably for old boot/shoe/ 3 buckles, 1 nail, 1 screw, 1 end of pipe and 1 firing mech from old Enfield has Victorian stamp but looks pre martini henry possibly Zulu. Any advice would be appreciated.

Would enclose a picture but don't know how?
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Rorkes Drift Battle Relics Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 7:37 pm

Hi,

Not sure this is the right place to determine the value of your item.

Is there a local auctioneers near you or maybe you can get it valued on line?

It all goes on provenance etc, what proof is there that it is genuine?

Please don't get me wrong - I am not saying it is dodgy (I am not into the market for such things - I could never afford them!) but these are the considerations that determine value.

Are they relics from Rorkes Drift or from other Zulu war battles or just from the time of RD but elsewhere (ie England). It all seems fairly standard 'relic' fare.

It is illegal to dig up items from SA battlefields - maybe someone else (Frank?) will know how long it has been illegal.

Sorry to be negative but without proof - it would be difficult to give a value (which is obviously dependent on how much two people want an item)

Please look at this for an example of the 'difficulty' of such things:-

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


ta

Simon
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Dunmore



Posts : 3
Join date : 2019-08-09

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PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 9:38 pm

Thank you for your reply. I believe the items to be authentic, they were purchased from Cathay militaria in South Africa 20 years ago they were from an old collection from the 1950s. They seem to be in the same wooden frame with red cloth backing and gold description plate from others that are on line including one that was sold from wallis&wsllis in around 2013. I thought that I would try this forum first before contacting an auction as I thought that they would be some members with knowledge on this subject.
Kind regards
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7672
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 10:12 pm

I look forward to JY commenting on the General Service Button at Rorkes Drift
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Rorkes Drift Battle Relics Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySat Aug 10, 2019 8:07 am

Dunmore wrote:
I believe the items to be authentic, they were purchased from Cathay militaria in South Africa 20 years ago they were from an old collection from the 1950s.  They seem to be in the same wooden frame with red cloth backing and gold description plate from others that are on line including one that was sold from wallis&wsllis in around 2013.

Hi,

So this is the start of your provenance trail - as you have already done - I have had a glance at the W&W website and a set of a type like yours went for £4K. I can't find much out about Cathay Militaria.

Perhaps the best route for you is to contact the Wallis & Wallis auction house (militaria@wallisandwallis.co.uk) and send them some photos etc and they may give you a valuation.

If you wish to e-mail me the photos (my contact details are in my profile section), I will put them on the forum for you.

Thanks

Simon
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Dunmore



Posts : 3
Join date : 2019-08-09

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PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySat Aug 10, 2019 9:42 am

I spoke with Wallis & Wallis auction house on Friday they appear interested and have emailed them some photos

Cathaymilitaria.co.za (which is no longer active) was run by a gentleman called Mervyn Mitton based out in Umhlanga in South Africa.  He was also a senior moderator and honorary member from 2009-2015 of the "Gentleman's Military Gentlemans Club" which is a military forum.


I have emailed SRB1965 asking for his email (as cant find it on the forum) and if he replies I will forward a picture.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7672
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySat Aug 10, 2019 1:28 pm

Dunmore click on Simes avatar, that will take you to his details page. his e mail connection is on there.
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Rorkes Drift Battle Relics Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySat Aug 10, 2019 4:12 pm

For Dunmore

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These photos are his item and a close up of GS button

ta

Sime


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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Rorkes Drift Battle Relics Empty
PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySat Aug 10, 2019 4:17 pm

These are similar items that have sold over the past 5 or 6 years.

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Cheers

Sime

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nitro450

nitro450

Posts : 151
Join date : 2015-01-21
Age : 75
Location : Sydney, Australia

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PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySun Sep 01, 2019 6:58 am

I have a similar group of relics gathered from Isandlwana quite a long time ago. I bought it from a chap who came from KZN, same long frame with a brass sign at the bottom. He also had a second frame with less items in it.
I think digging them up and selling them was quite racket in those times. All over now. I don't know how to put a picture on either.
Nitro450
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sstiles



Posts : 1
Join date : 2019-08-27

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PostSubject: Re: Rorkes Drift Battle Relics   Rorkes Drift Battle Relics EmptySat Nov 28, 2020 10:15 am

I just saw this post now. I too have two of these framed displays that relate to Isandlwana according to their label. My understanding is that they are items recovered very many years ago. I obtained them from the same person and at the same time I got unmounted items relating to Isandlwana. The provenance was linked to the establishment of the Mtonjaneni Museum or the predecessor owners - funding of museum? I have always assumed the source was the same for both.
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