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'Ah! Those red soldiers at Isandlwana, how few they were, and how they fought! They fell like stones-each man in his place
 
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Battle of Isandlwana 1879 with Historian Dr David Rattray
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Eric Whitlock



Posts : 7
Join date : 2018-11-10

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: what are these?   what are these? EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 2:22 pm

what are these? Bullets perhaps?

I found these by the cave near Younghusbands last stand?

They feel heavy enough to be lead.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Any ideas?
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 3:08 pm

I'm no expert but they could be bullet fragments....or something lost, left or purposely deposited over the intervening 140 years.

My initial thoughts are (if lead) - I would expect some white 'patina' on them but I'm not up on the soil effects in the area on lead.

They look a bit small (but could be fragments) and I would be concerned about the location (by the cave) - the cave scenario is very famous.

There has been an awful lot of activity in the area in the previous years.....

However, that said I am invariably wrong on everything I post on the forum......

Cheers

Simon

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Eric Whitlock



Posts : 7
Join date : 2018-11-10

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 3:20 pm

yes they look more green than white but one certainly looks pointed on the end like a spent round. The green could be verdigris but I don't think they are bronze or copper they feel too heavy. They also look impacted or subjected to heat. They are not just animal droppings . Unless the local wildlife eat metal.

An intriguing puzzle?
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2190
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyFri Jan 31, 2020 3:55 pm

Eric,

I have seen something similar in exactly the same area.  At first I thought that they could have been splashed rounds.  However, I was informed by a well-respected local guide - now deceased - that they were actually slag from a Zulu smithy.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7673
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptySun Feb 02, 2020 2:23 am

There was an old smithy on top of isandlwana
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptySun Feb 02, 2020 10:12 am

Home of the least successful smithy in Zululand.....when they suddenly realised they had to hump the raw materials up there and the wind kept blowing the fire out......

I wonder if there was some 'spiritual' reason why the smithy set up there?
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2190
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptySun Feb 02, 2020 11:54 am

Simon,

From what I understood from my guide the smithy pre-dated the battle.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7673
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptySun Feb 02, 2020 12:31 pm

Sime
The Blacksmiths were very spiritual often likened to witches an warlocks, very much feared.
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Paul Lamberth



Posts : 18
Join date : 2015-08-07

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptySun Feb 02, 2020 6:02 pm

what ever they are you should forward them to Amafa being relics found on a heritage site. It is illegal to remove any item from historical sights. Please consider your actions.
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyMon Feb 03, 2020 7:57 am

Hi

I am sure Eric is aware of the Laws regarding Heritage Sites and artefacts and has either replaced the items back in context or started the process to forward them to Amafa.

That's the beauty of the modern world - with digital cameras and phone cameras - detailed photos can be taken without removing items from site.

Cheers

Simon
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7673
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyMon Feb 03, 2020 8:17 am

Sime
See if you can access the TV series, "Shaka Zulu" with Henry Cele. Firstly its a brilliant series and second there is a large section on the blacksmiths dark arts and the reverence and fear they inspired.
Taking that forward, imagine the sight from afar with a smithy belching flames on a dark knight, place that up high on iSandlwana along with the accompanying noises and I guarantee it would frighten the hell out of all and sundry.
try and get the movie.

Cheers
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 867
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyMon Feb 03, 2020 1:26 pm

Hi Frank,

I've the series a couple of times.

I can't specifically remember the blacksmith bit - I do remember some kinda strange (elephant bone/tusk) architecture and Simon Sabela being in it.

Its on Netflx at the moment so I may give it another go.

I've read that the main centre of Zulu smithying was some forest somewhere - where they had a good supply of wood......

If you think about it, in European Dark Age culture - smiths were seen in a slightly mystical way - iron working being seen the premise of the Gods and dwarfs etc......

ta

Sime
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ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 4077
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 61
Location : KENT

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptySun Feb 23, 2020 3:31 pm

E-mail from Kevin Burge.
"On top of the hill are many hundreds of these.  The area has plenty of iron in the sand, it’s possible that they are fragments from old Zulu burial sites & “ceremonial smelting”.
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beeza



Posts : 9
Join date : 2019-11-01
Location : South Africa

what are these? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are these?   what are these? EmptyMon Feb 24, 2020 9:37 am

From 9 years old, I have spent many years walking the Isandlwana battlefield and climbing to the top of the hill that has spiritual importance to the Zulus. I have seen the ruins and held lots of slag and iron blobs from iron smelting on the top of the hill, up the path as it rises from the plateau of the hill up to the peak. There may have been other smelters around the hill. Beeza
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