WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyYesterday at 6:31 pm by Frank Allewell

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyMon Sep 21, 2020 1:20 pm by Frank Allewell

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 pm by ADMIN

» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:52 pm by ADMIN

» Quarter-Master William London
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm by ADMIN

» Tpr. John Ross Natal Carbineer
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:27 pm by ADMIN

» Non-Combat Casualties in Colonial and Native Units
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 3:50 pm by 1879graves

» 2/4th Foot at Hlobane/Kambula
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 4:12 am by 90th

» England's Sons 9th edition
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed Aug 26, 2020 6:20 pm by Herbie

» Strange tales from Isandlwana
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 4:25 pm by SRB1965

» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:48 pm by Visitor

» Militaria Sale
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 5:59 pm by Frank Allewell

» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am by 90th

» Malicious website
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun Aug 16, 2020 9:06 pm by ADMIN

» Rorkes drift Hotel
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu Aug 13, 2020 7:00 pm by robert taylor

» Durnford's medical officer
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 11:36 am by SRB1965

» Charles Sparks - any information available?
Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 9:23 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Black as Hell, Thick as Grass
Top posters
90th
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
littlehand
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
ADMIN
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
1879graves
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
rusteze
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
John
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
John Young
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
De Passey
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
90th
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
ADMIN
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
1879graves
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Kenny
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
SRB1965
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Digger
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Catiline63
Richard Mansell ADAMS Bar_leftRichard Mansell ADAMS BarRichard Mansell ADAMS Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Adding to the Library
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
Durnford melvill spalding smith Franklin Natal john zulu taylor Russell Mounted Isandlwana Woolfryes harford drift henry payne George Police 24th martini gardner james Prince william horse

 

 Richard Mansell ADAMS

Go down 
AuthorMessage
CathyW



Posts : 4
Join date : 2020-05-07

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 11:53 am

Hi, all,
A very first post from a new member.
I am writing up a family history for a branch of the ADAMS family resident in Perth, Australia.  According to his obituary in the South Australian newspapers, he fought in the AZW.  Having read a few posts here already, I can see that this can’t always be relied upon…!
His name was Richard Mansell ADAMS or Richard Michael ADAMS; he may have been born in 1846 or 1848 in Queens County, Ireland.  We are sure he was born somewhere in Ireland.  He may have been in the 88th / Connaught Rangers at the time he was in South Africa.  He certainly was in Pietermaritzburg in 1877, as he was married there by the chaplain to Anna Catharine Johanna VOLSTEEDT on 13 September 1877.  Her family was for the most part based in the Cape, and we have no idea how she got to be in Natal!
It would be wonderful to be able to confirm that Richard M ADAMS did indeed fight as he claimed – the family history research I have done for this branch has turned up everything from accidental poisoning, unsuccessful and repeated litigation, drowning, several affairs, changes of name, and a cavalier disregard for accuracy….  Of course, it’s also interesting if he didn’t or exaggerated his service.
I’ll try to attach the Obituary and wedding record in case they are of help – the obit gives a lot of detail (and faulty spelling of place names).
Thank you,
CathyW

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2130
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 5:05 pm

CathyW,

I will say that he served in 11th Battery, 7th Brigade, Royal Regiment of Artillery, as his rank at the time of his wedding was that of Bombardier.

Bombardiers at that time wore one chevron as their insignia of rank, rather than the later designation of  two chevrons, as the Royal Artillery still had Corporals in 1879 who wore two chevrons.

In the ranks of 11th Battery, 7th Brigade were two men with the surname Adams:
Corporal 238 R. Adams and Bombardier 1711 M. Adams.  Both of these soldiers were awarded the South African General Service Medal with the clasp '1879'.

A section of two cannon manned by twenty-two members of the battery under the command of Lieutenant Wilford Neville Lloyd fought at the Battle of Nyezane on 22nd January 1879.  The section were subsequently besieged at the Mission Station at Eshowe from 23rd January 1879 until 3rd April 1879, which is consistent with the newspaper report above.

Now to solve which Adams is your man!

JY
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3049
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 5:10 pm

Hi CathyW

Welcome to the forum.

There is a Corporal 238 Richard Adams list in the Medal Roll for the Royal Artillery 7th Brigade 11th Battery which did take part in the Zulu War.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hope this helps

Andy
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3049
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 5:11 pm

Sorry JY

Our posts Crossed

Salute
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2130
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 5:41 pm

Hi Andy,

My version of the Medal Roll is playing up, where and when was 11/7's roll produced?

It could hold the key to the discharge in the Cape.

JY
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3049
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 6:18 pm

Hi JY

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Salute
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2130
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 6:34 pm

Cheers Andy,

There was I was hoping it was not the Cape.

However, there is an Assistant Commissary R.M. Adams, Ordnance Department on the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal Roll, with the bar for the Transkei, which fits with the obituary posted above by CathyW.

JY
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2130
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyWed May 13, 2020 8:43 pm

CathyW,

There are five records in the National Archives of South Africa held in the Cape Town Records Office relating to Richard Mansell Adams.  The insolvency case is amongst them.

JY
Back to top Go down
CathyW



Posts : 4
Join date : 2020-05-07

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu May 14, 2020 12:45 am

Oh, wow - you guys are great! I knew this was the right place to ask!!
Just wish I didn't have to go to work today - the past is calling...
Yes, I have the NAAIRS references (they pretty much put paid to the family's belief that the sons inherited shares in a South African gold mine...). Richard Mansell ADAMS appears to have been quite good at putting on a gloss on many things, hence the need to check and check again. The idea was that they left for Australia because he chose to take the position - rather than because he needed to escape creditors! Fortunately the family is very receptive to anything I find.
I need to go away and try to understand the branches of the services a bit better I think (need a Dummies' Guide to the 19thC British Armed Forces) - but I really appreciate the information thus far!
CathyW
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2130
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu May 14, 2020 9:25 am

Hi CathyW,

The Royal Collection Trust has a photograph of Lieutenant Lloyd online, see you can see the Section’s commander.

I have some engravings of the siege of Eshowe, one of which includes one of 11/7’s cannon.  Please pm me if those are of any use in adding to Richard’s background.

JY
Back to top Go down
CathyW



Posts : 4
Join date : 2020-05-07

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu May 14, 2020 2:27 pm

Hi, again,

Prepare for some ignorant questions!

First of all, thank you John for that information about RMA probably being in the 11th Battery, 7th Brigade, Royal Regiment of Artillery. So, Bombardiers (which sound very important a lay person) are lower than a Corporal, but equal to or higher than a Private?

And – what is an Assistant Commissary? Sounds like food, so would it be logistics? He was a clerk in later periods of his life.

One of the great-great-grandsons served in the Australian Army, so I am sure would be very interested in knowing more about the cannon they would have used, thank you!

I do know a little about the Zulu War and have been to Isandhlwana a couple of times, ditto Rorke’s Drift, Eshowe, Fort Durnford, Ulundi etc, but it was all over quarter of a century ago now and I’m sure I never really understood the more technical military elements…. Nonetheless I can picture something of what he went through at least as far as the scenes and the immense challenges. Of course, he’d been in India, too, but this! Even now, Isandhlwana has a different atmosphere to the surrounding countryside, imo.

Andy, may I share that cutting from the Medal Roll in the history I’m doing for the family, if it’s proven that’s the correct Richard Adams? It’s not for commercial publication, just for the family.

I wonder how long he had in Cape Town before coming up to Natal? Do you know, I have no idea how the troops would have travelled – did they sail to Durban? (No rolling of eyes!)

Thank you for your help,
CathyW
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3049
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu May 14, 2020 3:23 pm

Hi CathyW

Yes you are more than welcome to use the cutting of the Medal roll, it does not have any copyright to it.

Andy
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2130
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptyThu May 14, 2020 8:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The Graphic, 31st May 1879.

CathyW,

The engraving of one of 11/7’s cannon, looks like the driver on the limber has definitely been in lockdown.  Given the prevalence of disease at Eshowe, I suppose it is understandable.

A Bombardier in 1879, was the junior non-commissioned officer’s rank in the Artillery, the equivalent in the infantry of the line was the appointment of Lance-Corporal.  So between his marriage and the issue of the Medal Roll he had been promoted.

An Assistant Commissary did indeed deal with stores, in Richard’s case this was ordnance - artillery shells etc & etc.  That was an officer’s rank.

I hope that clarifies things a little?

I see what I have the Battery’s movements prior to the Zulu War.  For the campaign itself Lloyd’s section was assigned to No. 1 Column which crossed the Thukela (Tugela) River near to its estuary with Indian Ocean.  The remainder of the battery four cannon served in No. 4 Column on what was the border of Zululand and the Transvaal.

JY
Back to top Go down
CathyW



Posts : 4
Join date : 2020-05-07

Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS EmptySun May 17, 2020 1:21 pm

Hi, again,
I have shared your insights and knowledge and have consequently been bathing in reflected glory as the distant cousins digest the new information!

We believe that the writer of the newspaper article - which was never meant to be an obituary, but Richard ADAMS died two days after the interview - must have seen some sort of service record, to have had so many details.  What is particularly interesting is that the family has a very strong belief, across all branches, that Richard Mansell ADAMS' real name was Michael O'Toole, that his mother married an abusive man, Michael/Richard finally assaulted his stepfather thoroughly and fled Ireland via joining the Army and changing his name.  So the Michael ADAMS with a discharge at the Cape, would particularly match up on two counts.  

Now, one of the cousins has argued that Richard ADAMS "was never a commissioned officer but a senior non-commissioned one (once he got to Sydney) and a more junior army man in South Africa and India. In his assistant ordnance role, certainly the person in charge of artillery shells would have been an (commissioned) Officer- ie Captain or Lieutenant?".  Any opinion on that one? (I'm not sure there is documentation to support the idea that he was never a commissioned officer.)

According to the obit, he was promoted to Sergeant and posted to Shoeburyness for gunnery course and then placed in charge of a citadel in Portsmouth with secondment to Channel Islands.  A citadel??! (I keep thinking of the Salvation Army...)  Surely that's rather important?  Is he exaggerating?  Or  does it fit quite happily in a military service sense with his (possible) rank and occupation in the time of the Zulu War?  Again - excuse my abysmal ignorance of these military matters.

Thanks again for the help - I did acknowledge that I hadn't found out any of the above on my own!!
CathyW
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty
PostSubject: Re: Richard Mansell ADAMS   Richard Mansell ADAMS Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Richard Mansell ADAMS
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: DID THEY OR DIDN'T THEY TAKE PART IN THE ZULU WAR-
Jump to: