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Film Zulu Dawn quote: “Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
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 The Pickets on Mkwene

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aussie inkosi



Posts : 140
Join date : 2013-09-16
Age : 55
Location : MELBOURNE

The Pickets on Mkwene Empty
PostSubject: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptySun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am

Hi everyone

Hope your all well,  finally these restrictions are slowly being lifted after 3 months

I am doing an essay  on these screens the Zulu used at Isandlwana.  I am approaching the final stages of stage one after 2 years of deep research

On Mkwene there was a company of NNC of what I understand for each company of NNC there were about 10 officers  commanding
them do we know the names of those officers , On Mkwene before the discovery took place right under there noses

This is what I have at the moment
Captain Barry
Lieutenant Vereker
Lieutenant Adendorff

I would love your input Frank even though we have different opinions on the discovery, I still respect your knowledge on the subject mate

Thanks and keep safe all


Last edited by aussie inkosi on Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7600
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

The Pickets on Mkwene Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyMon Oct 19, 2020 7:13 am

Morning Aussie, have a look at Englands Sons

Cheers
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aussie inkosi



Posts : 140
Join date : 2013-09-16
Age : 55
Location : MELBOURNE

The Pickets on Mkwene Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyTue Oct 20, 2020 6:31 am

Thanks Frank
Of what I understand for every company of NNC there were around 10 officers commanding them so I have the following names
Lieutenant Higginson
Sergeant Major Williams
Lieutenant Adendorf
These survived the battle

Captain Barry
Lieutenant Vereker   both killed
Lieutenant Vaines I have a question mark
which still leaves me several short of which there is a good chance they did not survive the battle Thanks
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90th

90th

Posts : 10142
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: The Pickets on Mkwene    The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyTue Oct 20, 2020 3:32 pm

HI Aussie
I'm not sure if Barry had all his Co on Mkwene , it may've only been a Piquet size number of men ? . Wasn't Higginson in Barry's Co ? , and he was in the camp from memory , I think once Adendorff had ridden down from their position Pulleine or someone send Higginson to see what Adendorff was attempting to describe , Adendorff's command of the English language was limited from memory ? .
90th Salute
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Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom

Posts : 158
Join date : 2017-02-05

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyTue Oct 20, 2020 3:51 pm

Aussie,

According to Keith I. Smith in his "The Commandant's: The Leadership of the Natal Native Contingent" Lieutenant Vaines, No 9 Company, did survive.  I have a copy saved as a PDF file if you would like a one.

Tom
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Danny1960



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Join date : 2020-01-13

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyTue Oct 20, 2020 5:04 pm

Petty officer tom, I would like a copy of the PDF’s file, if that’s ok with you....I will pm you my email address
Many thanks
Danny 1960
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Danny1960



Posts : 23
Join date : 2020-01-13

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyTue Oct 20, 2020 5:25 pm

Thank you petty officer Tom, looks like a nice bit of reading material,
Many thanks
Danny 1960
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aussie inkosi



Posts : 140
Join date : 2013-09-16
Age : 55
Location : MELBOURNE

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyWed Oct 21, 2020 10:06 am

Thanks Petty Officer Tom

I sent you a private message with my email address

Hi 90th hope your well
I have been doing a lot of reading and Higginson does mention several names present on Mkwene when he goes up there around 10am this is the same time when Durnford arrives with his first portion of his column.  Yes your correct mate it was Adendorff which first reported to HQ that large numbers of Zulu  were sighted from Mkwene this is in fact Uguku's regiment which moved up and it is this same regiment and one other the Nkokenke which faints a reatiring  move which promps Durnford to move up two troops,  you would not believe how many actually saw all these zulu moves an example is Chard he saw another impi moving behind Isandlwana and he saw it when he was close to HQ this also means that those in camp{the majority of the column} would of seen this, well I am slowly getting there and will be something new as goes with sighting important locations through the lens of Panoramic photography  please all keep safe as I hear a second wave is hitting the UK.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyWed Oct 21, 2020 3:18 pm

Aussie if your using a Durnford stating point of 10 oclock you may want to have a look at Erskin.
Trooper Barker in his statement, Stalker pp99, credits Whitelaw with being the first to report large scale movements, this is disputed by JJ Horne who credits Dirk Dinkelman with inspiring Colonel Henry Pulleine to put the troops on standby and send a report to Lord Chemsford.

Cheers Mate
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aussie inkosi



Posts : 140
Join date : 2013-09-16
Age : 55
Location : MELBOURNE

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyThu Oct 22, 2020 11:37 pm

Hi Frank

Yes your correct the first sighting is credited to Whitelaw this is before the 805 message which is sent to Chelmsford.  I still dont have the full testimony of Erskine where can I find it ?  Of what I understand there could be a conflict with my time table I am using, as you know Frank of my conclusion that being  Barker sighting this large Zulu army this being the same as what Raw and Roberts discovers only 1 hour before the main discovery these panoramas with the eye witness testimony will settle this ZULU RIDDLE ONCE AND FOR ALL   and i need to thank the Major, John Young, you Frank and Julian for helping me on the way  THANKS
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 8:33 am

Morning Aussie
Erskin puts a definite time stamp on his arrival at the Bashe stream of 10 oclock.
One interesting point about the early sightings comes from Essex: "about 8am when a report arrived from a piquet stationed at a point about 1500 yards distant, on a hill to the north of the camp, that a body of the enemy's troops could be seen approaching from the north east."
And at a later point in his report he refers again to the 'piquet': "Soon afterwards information arrived from the piquet before alluded to, that the enemy was in three columns, two of which were retiring, but were still in view; the third column had disapeared in a north westerly direction."
If therefore the first report was from Whitelaw Essex puts him stationed either on Mkwene or very close to it, he also then confirms that Whitelaw delivered 2 seperate reports and splits the information passed into firstly the actual sighting and then at a later point the action of splitting up.

Hope that helps.

Cheers Mate stay safe
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aussie inkosi



Posts : 140
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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 10:16 am

Morning Frank
I have read Essex testimony the first sighting he mentions at 8am is clearly the same message that prompted the message to be sent to Chelmsford time matches perfectly Barker confirms this " Whitelaw reported a large army advancing " Thousands" I remember distinctly saying and he was immediately sent back to camp".

The next sighting you mention that these 3 columns retiring are the uMcijo and Nkokenke regiment first arrived and seen from Mkwene at around 9am which was reported to camp by Adendorff which then Higginson and Sergeant Major Williams is sent to Mkwene to investigate when he returns Higginson finds Durnford has arrived then this report comes via Higginson that the Zulus are retiring [ report comes from Mkwene] this I believe is a Zulu faint what the pickets actually saw was the screen retiring and not the massive army behind that ridgline the Zulus were playing with these pickets and it worked this report reaches camp shortly after 1030am at this time Barker on the opposite side of the picket line  sights these 200 zulus advancing to 300 meters of Barkers position on Itusi they fall back why, because they been told to like the ones Essex and Higginson reports but Barker advances and sights this army behind the ridgline only a short distance from Itusi, this is consistent the Zulu's wanted to bait them out and Durnford falls for it he does not know there is an army waiting behind that ridgeline the only one who does is Barker and by the time he reports his find to camp Raw and Roberts has just left and the rocket battery also Barker testimony confirms this clearly without any doubt.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene   The Pickets on Mkwene EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 11:30 am

"he does not know there is an army waiting behind that ridgeline the only one who does is Barker and by the time he reports his find to camp Raw and Roberts has just left and the rocket battery also Barker testimony confirms this clearly without any doubt. agree Always doubt mate.
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