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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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| | The Pickets on Mkwene | |
| | Author | Message |
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aussie inkosi
![aussie inkosi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1472-7.jpg)
Posts : 428 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 58 Location : MELBOURNE
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: The Pickets on Mkwene Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am | |
| Hi everyone
Hope your all well, finally these restrictions are slowly being lifted after 3 months
I am doing an essay on these screens the Zulu used at Isandlwana. I am approaching the final stages of stage one after 2 years of deep research
On Mkwene there was a company of NNC of what I understand for each company of NNC there were about 10 officers commanding them do we know the names of those officers , On Mkwene before the discovery took place right under there noses
This is what I have at the moment Captain Barry Lieutenant Vereker Lieutenant Adendorff
I would love your input Frank even though we have different opinions on the discovery, I still respect your knowledge on the subject mate
Thanks and keep safe all
Last edited by aussie inkosi on Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:13 am | |
| Morning Aussie, have a look at Englands Sons
Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | aussie inkosi
![aussie inkosi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1472-7.jpg)
Posts : 428 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 58 Location : MELBOURNE
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:31 am | |
| Thanks Frank Of what I understand for every company of NNC there were around 10 officers commanding them so I have the following names Lieutenant Higginson Sergeant Major Williams Lieutenant Adendorf These survived the battle
Captain Barry Lieutenant Vereker both killed Lieutenant Vaines I have a question mark which still leaves me several short of which there is a good chance they did not survive the battle Thanks |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: The Pickets on Mkwene Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:32 pm | |
| HI Aussie I'm not sure if Barry had all his Co on Mkwene , it may've only been a Piquet size number of men ? . Wasn't Higginson in Barry's Co ? , and he was in the camp from memory , I think once Adendorff had ridden down from their position Pulleine or someone send Higginson to see what Adendorff was attempting to describe , Adendorff's command of the English language was limited from memory ? . 90th |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Petty Officer Tom
![Petty Officer Tom](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/2389-79.gif)
Posts : 360 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:51 pm | |
| Aussie,
According to Keith I. Smith in his "The Commandant's: The Leadership of the Natal Native Contingent" Lieutenant Vaines, No 9 Company, did survive. I have a copy saved as a PDF file if you would like a one.
Tom |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Danny1960
![Danny1960](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3022-35.png)
Posts : 54 Join date : 2020-01-13 Age : 63 Location : Khon Kaen In Thailand
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:04 pm | |
| Petty officer tom, I would like a copy of the PDF’s file, if that’s ok with you....I will pm you my email address Many thanks Danny 1960 |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Danny1960
![Danny1960](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/3022-35.png)
Posts : 54 Join date : 2020-01-13 Age : 63 Location : Khon Kaen In Thailand
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:25 pm | |
| Thank you petty officer Tom, looks like a nice bit of reading material, Many thanks Danny 1960 |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | aussie inkosi
![aussie inkosi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1472-7.jpg)
Posts : 428 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 58 Location : MELBOURNE
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:06 am | |
| Thanks Petty Officer Tom
I sent you a private message with my email address
Hi 90th hope your well I have been doing a lot of reading and Higginson does mention several names present on Mkwene when he goes up there around 10am this is the same time when Durnford arrives with his first portion of his column. Yes your correct mate it was Adendorff which first reported to HQ that large numbers of Zulu were sighted from Mkwene this is in fact Uguku's regiment which moved up and it is this same regiment and one other the Nkokenke which faints a reatiring move which promps Durnford to move up two troops, you would not believe how many actually saw all these zulu moves an example is Chard he saw another impi moving behind Isandlwana and he saw it when he was close to HQ this also means that those in camp{the majority of the column} would of seen this, well I am slowly getting there and will be something new as goes with sighting important locations through the lens of Panoramic photography please all keep safe as I hear a second wave is hitting the UK. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:18 pm | |
| Aussie if your using a Durnford stating point of 10 oclock you may want to have a look at Erskin. Trooper Barker in his statement, Stalker pp99, credits Whitelaw with being the first to report large scale movements, this is disputed by JJ Horne who credits Dirk Dinkelman with inspiring Colonel Henry Pulleine to put the troops on standby and send a report to Lord Chemsford.
Cheers Mate |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | aussie inkosi
![aussie inkosi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1472-7.jpg)
Posts : 428 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 58 Location : MELBOURNE
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:37 pm | |
| Hi Frank
Yes your correct the first sighting is credited to Whitelaw this is before the 805 message which is sent to Chelmsford. I still dont have the full testimony of Erskine where can I find it ? Of what I understand there could be a conflict with my time table I am using, as you know Frank of my conclusion that being Barker sighting this large Zulu army this being the same as what Raw and Roberts discovers only 1 hour before the main discovery these panoramas with the eye witness testimony will settle this ZULU RIDDLE ONCE AND FOR ALL and i need to thank the Major, John Young, you Frank and Julian for helping me on the way THANKS |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:33 am | |
| Morning Aussie Erskin puts a definite time stamp on his arrival at the Bashe stream of 10 oclock. One interesting point about the early sightings comes from Essex: "about 8am when a report arrived from a piquet stationed at a point about 1500 yards distant, on a hill to the north of the camp, that a body of the enemy's troops could be seen approaching from the north east." And at a later point in his report he refers again to the 'piquet': "Soon afterwards information arrived from the piquet before alluded to, that the enemy was in three columns, two of which were retiring, but were still in view; the third column had disapeared in a north westerly direction." If therefore the first report was from Whitelaw Essex puts him stationed either on Mkwene or very close to it, he also then confirms that Whitelaw delivered 2 seperate reports and splits the information passed into firstly the actual sighting and then at a later point the action of splitting up.
Hope that helps.
Cheers Mate stay safe
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | aussie inkosi
![aussie inkosi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1472-7.jpg)
Posts : 428 Join date : 2013-09-16 Age : 58 Location : MELBOURNE
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:16 am | |
| Morning Frank I have read Essex testimony the first sighting he mentions at 8am is clearly the same message that prompted the message to be sent to Chelmsford time matches perfectly Barker confirms this " Whitelaw reported a large army advancing " Thousands" I remember distinctly saying and he was immediately sent back to camp".
The next sighting you mention that these 3 columns retiring are the uMcijo and Nkokenke regiment first arrived and seen from Mkwene at around 9am which was reported to camp by Adendorff which then Higginson and Sergeant Major Williams is sent to Mkwene to investigate when he returns Higginson finds Durnford has arrived then this report comes via Higginson that the Zulus are retiring [ report comes from Mkwene] this I believe is a Zulu faint what the pickets actually saw was the screen retiring and not the massive army behind that ridgline the Zulus were playing with these pickets and it worked this report reaches camp shortly after 1030am at this time Barker on the opposite side of the picket line sights these 200 zulus advancing to 300 meters of Barkers position on Itusi they fall back why, because they been told to like the ones Essex and Higginson reports but Barker advances and sights this army behind the ridgline only a short distance from Itusi, this is consistent the Zulu's wanted to bait them out and Durnford falls for it he does not know there is an army waiting behind that ridgeline the only one who does is Barker and by the time he reports his find to camp Raw and Roberts has just left and the rocket battery also Barker testimony confirms this clearly without any doubt. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![The Pickets on Mkwene Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: The Pickets on Mkwene Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:30 am | |
| "he does not know there is an army waiting behind that ridgeline the only one who does is Barker and by the time he reports his find to camp Raw and Roberts has just left and the rocket battery also Barker testimony confirms this clearly without any doubt. Always doubt mate. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | The Pickets on Mkwene | |
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