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Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
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 Officers at Ulundi

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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyWed May 05, 2021 4:02 pm

Does anyone on here have access to or know if there is a list of all the British Officers present IN THE SQUARE at Ulundi?

Many officers claim to have been in at the kill but when you scratch the surface they were on the other side of the river at Fort Nolele and most were probably sitting twiddling their thumbs thinking " does the General want me to fight the Zulu or just observe their natural habitat"
Kate Very Happy
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90th

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PostSubject: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 5:06 am

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Joker Joker Joker Joker Kate !
90th AZWD.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 12:28 pm

Kate probably not a lot of help but I have seen a reference to 122 officers at Ulundi with 3 KIA.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 1:45 pm

Kate,

Try They Fell Like Stones pages 185 - 196.

JY
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90th

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PostSubject: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 1:47 pm

Kate
John Young lists Officers in his book but not sure if those that stayed at Ft Nolela may also be listed ? , John will hopefully see this .
90th Salute Salute
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 4:43 pm

Thanks chaps for all your help.Salute
John I had looked at 'They Fell Like Stones' but as your very comprehensive list contained Major F.S. Russell, 14th Hussars, assumed that the officers listed were all those with Chelmsford's force rather than just those in the square.
I appreciate it is a while ago but when you were carrying out your research did you come across a list of officers who were actually in the square?
Kate Very Happy
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 6:44 pm

Kate,

No I only included those evidenced by at least two contemporary sources, together with Hart’s and subsequently published regimental and corps histories. Hence the absence of those who remained in the laager under William Bellairs’ command.

I notice the “but” regarding Russell, do you contend that he remained in Fort Nolela? Doesn’t Chelmsford mention him in his Ulundi despatch? According to Bellairs’ despatch there were a total of forty-nine officers - although that number includes both regular army and colonial forces - who remained in the laager.

The better start might be those forty-nine officers, here’s a start I have deducted the nine officers of the colonial forces, leaving us with the following:

2nd Division.
23 officers of 1st/24th.
2 officers of A.M.D.
9 officers of C. & T. Dept.

Flying Column.
3 officers of the R.E.
2 officers of the A.H.C.
1 officer of the A.S.C. (?)

I have added the query above as the Army Service Corps were officered by either the C. & T. Department or the Ordnance Store Department, so the A.S.C. ‘officer’ might well be a Conductor of Supply.

What is interesting is has Bellairs included himself in the forty regular officers, and where does Smith-Dorrien appear in those figures? Another thing Bellairs does not list any officer from the Frontier Light Horse as remaining in the laager, yet we know that the injured H.C.D. D’Arcy was there.

Open another can of worms please!

JY


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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 7:32 pm

Thanks for the reply John.
I only mentioned Russell because he himself said he was in the fort and not in the square,
"I took up my post on the fort with a number of men with telescopes....."
see page 233 of Sonia Clarke's "Zululand at War" for his full account.
Chelmsford obviously got it wrong.
Hand me the tin opener...
Kate Very Happy
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyThu May 06, 2021 8:21 pm

Kate,

Interesting that Russell does not elaborate on his role on 4th July 1879, here’s his Hart’s entry from 1883:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

MacKinnon & Shadbolt 1880 the impression his role is given as follows:
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Yet as you say in Zululand at War he rather contradicts both of the above in his letter to Alison.

JY



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90th

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PostSubject: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptyFri May 07, 2021 2:14 am

Hi John & Kate
So the Officers listed in ' They Fell Like Stones ' were indeed in the Square at Ulundi ? , outstanding ! . As for Russell..... ARGGHHHHH , BLOODY AZW , nothing is ever cut and dried with it ! , I'll have mine on toast with salt and pepper ! .
90th Very Happy Very Happy Joker Joker
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptySat May 08, 2021 11:13 am

Yeah its always the bloomin' Hussars causing all the trouble  Wink  Wink  Wink
Kate Very Happy
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptySat May 08, 2021 8:42 pm

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptySat May 08, 2021 9:58 pm

Sorry Frank I forgot to type '14th' in there, though I bet there are some Russian gunners who will agree with my original post.
Kate Very Happy
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Officers at Ulundi   Officers at Ulundi EmptySun May 09, 2021 6:54 am

If we had done better in 1854 the Ukraine wouldnt have the problems of today. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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