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» The battlefield revisited. An interesting report
The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyMon Jan 24, 2022 2:23 pm by Julian Whybra

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» Isandlwana solving the enigma
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» Captain R. F. Willoughby, Royal Scots Fusiliers, circa 1885
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» Guess where?
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» Did Captain Shepstone do it?
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» 1527 Pte. B Hall 2/24th Regt. KIA
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»  Harry Figg's Grave
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» Unknown Uniform Zuluwar Era - Pietermaritzburg. Plz help!
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» Isandlwana Casualties - BRODERICK
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» James Hamer map of iSandlwana
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» William Shutt (reg no. 469)
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» Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry
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» (H. Pilley. Cooks Mte. H.M.S. “Active”.)
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» John Patrick Seeler
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» What if Dartnell had returned?
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» William Stewart HAMILTON 90th Regiment of Foot (Perthsire Volunteers) Light Infantry
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» William Brighton
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 The battlefield revisited. An interesting report

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John Young
gardner1879
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyMon Dec 20, 2021 5:54 pm

One for Frank when he returns from playing at Rider Haggard.
Naval and Military Gazette and Weekly Chronicle of the United Services Wednesday 23rd July 1879:-

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Seems to suggest most fell on the other side of the nek including Durnford. scratch  
Interesting for me though seeing Alan referred to as a Colonel and listed with Melvill, Coghill, Chard and Bromhead as a  V.C. recipient as late as July 1879. Oh what could/should have been. Rolling Eyes

Kate Very Happy
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyMon Dec 20, 2021 6:51 pm

In light of the above couldn't resist this:-

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Kate  Merry Christmas
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyTue Dec 21, 2021 1:58 am

Kate,

Time to call on the optician, I cannot see where Alan Gardiner [sic] is ranked as a Colonel in the first article?

I do find the misspelling interesting though given Admiral Alan Francis Gardiner’s association with Natal and Zululand.

JY

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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyTue Dec 21, 2021 9:53 am

Thanks Frank for spotting that.Salute
Eye sight is fine technology skills deficient.

Missed off the second page of the scan from the first post this should have been tagged on the
bottom from the Aberdeen Press and Journal 17th march 1879.

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Kate Merry Christmas
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyTue Dec 21, 2021 10:51 am

Who the Hell is Frank? Go and change those spec’s now!

JY
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyTue Dec 21, 2021 11:09 am

*sigh* Rolling Eyes
Nothing wrong with my eyesight
Frank is the chap who works at the post office sorting depot.

Kate Merry Christmas
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyTue Dec 28, 2021 12:58 pm

Another suspect report then from long ago designed inadvertently to confuse and mislead the modern researcher.
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptySat Jan 01, 2022 4:59 pm

Indeed Julian. The Durnford death site is clearly wrong as we now know.
Though I wonder if, in amongst the inaccuracies, there may be a vein of truth running through the rest of the report in relation to bodies of men attempting to fight their way back to RD and falling in that area.
I thought the report may have been of interest to Frank as I know he has looked at the area for possible last stands and subsequent cairns.
When I walked from RD to the camp a few years ago I trudged up that slope  between the river and the nek,  (I was bloomin' knackered) there are some strange, mysterious piles of non-white washed rocks all the way up. I will see if I can dig out my photos of them.
Naturally the second newspaper report I posted up above is completely true Wink
A very Happy New Year to you
Kate Very Happy
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptySat Jan 01, 2022 5:36 pm

I think that then it was rather like today. A newspaper reporter would flesh out the facts he was sure of with assumptions and rumour in order to make for a good story. Thus many of the early reports are exactly what you describe - a mixture of truth and fiction. It's up to modern researchers to remember that these are newspaper stories, not history, and we should regard them in the same way as we might read the Daily Mail or any other similar paper today.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptySun Jan 02, 2022 9:13 am

I would agree Kate, Ive prowled that whole area and do believe that there are some cairn possibilities, along with the remnants of a kraal that is visible from Shiyane. The last time I did that walk was with Ronald and Niks last year.
Against that of course is the historical fact that the whole area was a system of mealie fields and its highly possible that in clearing the fields of stones they would have been piled up at the edges of those fields.
The interesting thing about Durnford is that I have a sketch drawn from the western side of the hill that has an 'X' marks the spot for Durnfords grave that is on the side of the hill way of to the north.
In my western slopes essay I do postulate the theory of a fighting retreat down that slope. Locating those 6 new cairns along the upper stream would tend to point towards a stand of significance.

Frank aka Ryder Haggard
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Tellgryn




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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptySun Jan 23, 2022 11:18 am

I think, that Dunford and the men around him maybe on the other side of the nek. This is due to the Zulu account of the British firing to clear a lane for those trying to escape the battlefield.

In that account the two horns had met up and closed the gap, then British troops fired to open a gap. The gap allowed many to try to get away.

I wish I had all the Zulu accounts of the battle; I only have bits and pieces from the odd books with some of the accounts.

I have noticed many authors are confusing the accounts of fighting Younghusband's men and the fight against Dunford's group last stand.

I do think it is Dunford's group firing to clear the lane for those escaping.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptySun Jan 23, 2022 12:26 pm

Tellgryn
Can't agree I'm afraid about Durnford. British troops certainly might have fired to 'clear a gap' from their position on the nek but the Durnford group were too far down the eastern slope to have done that - indeed they would have been firing into their own men from there.
The location of the Durnford group is well-attested by those who found the bodies and buried them.
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90th

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PostSubject: The battlefield revisited .    The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyMon Jan 24, 2022 3:16 am

Tellgryn
It's well and truly documented that Durnford and those with him perished on the Eastern side of Isandlwana mtn , there's no evidence whatsoever placing them on the Nek , or the western side of the mountain , as Julian mentioned it's well attested by those who found the bodies , and actually buried them near where they fell , not 200 or 300 hundred or more yards/ metres away where the nek is situated .
90th
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyMon Jan 24, 2022 11:54 am

Tellgryn
In fact, you're almost right. The key is in the wording 'British troops'. There were a group of British troops where you place them who fired to clear a path.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: The battlefield revisited. An interesting report   The battlefield revisited. An interesting report EmptyMon Jan 24, 2022 2:23 pm

Tellgryn
Read Jackson's Hill of the Sphinx page 46 for these references.
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