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 Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus

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4 posters
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Sturgy




Posts : 8
Join date : 2022-03-03
Location : Perth, Australia

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptyThu Mar 10, 2022 11:41 am

Ok; I know technically it's not an 1879 medal but it's my enigma:

1474 Private H Brown 6th Lanc Fus
1877 - 8 clasp

This medal has never made sense to me; never able to find records and the regiment doesn't line up with where they were supposed to be. I always thought it was re-etched but then why to someone whose records aren't available. Anyway it's an authentic medal compared to the others.

I also have an 1878 medal but unfortunately someone filed off the name.

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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2425
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptyThu Mar 10, 2022 1:38 pm

Sturgy,

The obvious thing to me is that the Lancashire Fusiliers did not exist until 1881, let alone the 6th Battalion which was raised for the Great War, including the landings at Cape Helles, Gallipoli.

Prior to 1881 the regiment that would become the Lancashire Fusiliers was designated as the 20th (East Devonshire) Regiment, and had two regular army battalions. The 2nd/20th served in the Cape of Good Hope, with detachments in Mauritius until 1872.

Definitely an enigma.

JY
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Sturgy




Posts : 8
Join date : 2022-03-03
Location : Perth, Australia

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptyThu Mar 10, 2022 1:47 pm

Hi John,

Yes definitely an odd one; my research mirrors what you found. I know that some people will try to rename the medal....but to do it to someone that's not on a military record is odd.

Thanks for the follow-up.

Regards,
Sturgy
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sekukuni




Posts : 7
Join date : 2010-08-21

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptyFri Mar 18, 2022 4:41 pm

Hi Sturgy
Some theories for you:
a) Mr Brown was an old 77-8 veteran who had lost / pawned his original medal, then later joined the 6th LF and felt the need to recreate his medal and thought he might as well put his current unit on it.
b) Mr Brown on joining the 6th LF awarded himself a medal, being of the right vintage himself to kid his new colleagues that he was an old campaigner
c) Mr Brown was a complete fantasist, who having watched “Zulu” in the 1960’s, had the medal named up without learning anything about the date or units of the war. (I have a modern book on my shelves whose original owner inscribed “Captain D. ********, Natal Native Contingent” on the endpapers!)
Clearly, a) is the more wholesome theory, but unless you get lucky and happen upon a report of a SA veteran serving in the LF, I’m betting we will never know…
Cheers,
Steven
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Sturgy




Posts : 8
Join date : 2022-03-03
Location : Perth, Australia

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptyFri Mar 18, 2022 11:27 pm

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the reply; I had a good chuckle at theory (c)!

My thoughts are the same as yours. That Mr H Brown bought a medal, erased the name and then engrave it with his. The engraving looks older than the 1960's so I think this is the likely possibility.

So the question is why? Well I'm also a Boer War enthusiast and found a H Brown who fought in the Boer War with the 6th Lancashire Fusiliers; the only difference between the two is the regimental number; please see attached. So my theory is that he may have gone to the effort of engraving his name on the medal only to put the wrong regimental number on it!

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QSA 1878 regimental number - 1474
Boer War Medal Roll - 6225

Thanks again.
Regards,
Sturgy
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Sturgy




Posts : 8
Join date : 2022-03-03
Location : Perth, Australia

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySat Mar 19, 2022 12:06 am

Hi Stephen,

For your information here are some photos showing the engraving; I'm no expert but I think it was engraved before 1964...again I'm just guessing.....

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Regards,
Shaun
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sekukuni




Posts : 7
Join date : 2010-08-21

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySat Mar 19, 2022 6:03 pm

Hi Sturgy,
Yes, I agree the renaming is quite old - maybe 100 years. I note too that the engraver has accurately emulated an official style, including plenty of dots after abbreviations.
Good luck with that mystery!
Regards,
Steven
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Kenny




Posts : 465
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySun Mar 20, 2022 1:47 pm

John,

Your history is not quite accurate - the ABW medal roll refers to 6th (Militia) Bn Lancashire Fusiliers who along with 5th Militia Battalion of the same regiment who served in South Africa with the regulars in 2nd Battalion.
Your reference to 6th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers serving in Gallipoli is of course the Territorial Force unit formed in 1908 from the 2nd Volunteer Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers.

Brown's number 6225 suggests that he enlisted just prior to going to South Africa in 1900.
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2425
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Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySun Mar 20, 2022 2:53 pm

Kenny,

I think that you are confusing me with some of the other contributors to the subject matter, I made no reference to the 2nd Boer War.

John
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Kenny




Posts : 465
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySun Mar 20, 2022 3:13 pm

John,

You made reference to 6 LF in Gallipoli - the territorial battalion - which is correct. However the QSA medal roll posted above is 6th (Militia) LF - different battalion.
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2425
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Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySun Mar 20, 2022 3:43 pm

Kenny,

I fully appreciate that, however, it was Sturgy who made the Boer War connection, rather than myself.

John
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Sturgy




Posts : 8
Join date : 2022-03-03
Location : Perth, Australia

Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus   Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus EmptySun Mar 20, 2022 11:11 pm

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for that; I understand the difference now.

Regards,
Sturgy
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