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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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Petty Officer Tom
Frank Allewell
Tellgryn
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Tellgryn




Posts : 14
Join date : 2022-01-07

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PostSubject: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Jul 25, 2022 7:19 pm

Is there a picture of the Chapel that was built and in place in 1880 at Isandlwana on the saddle? And when was it taken down?

Is there a picture of the service held at Isandlwana for the fallen?

I need good maps on the cairns and location, as some seem to be missing.

Frank, I have a good idea where and why the Iron cross was placed.

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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Jul 25, 2022 8:01 pm

Hi Tellgryn
1) There was never a chapel built, it was proposed but the concept was moved to its present location in the lee of the Nqutu ridge.
2) I have never seen any photo of the occasion. The earliest I have are those published in my book and belong to John Young. Published with his kind permission.
3)Send me an e mail, I have some very accurate maps of the cairns. A friend of mine has spent a number of years mapping out the cairns with some accurate GPRS positions (I think thats the right discription)
4)I would be very interested in hearing/seeing your positioning.
my e mail [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Frank
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Tellgryn




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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyTue Jul 26, 2022 11:50 pm

Frank I will send you mail Sunday or Monday. I work at the railroad as a trin engineer, right now we are working long hours.
I will get you the information on the iron cross, it is from a book in 1880.

Thank you for the quick reply.

Tellgryn

p.s. Frank i did post a reply on the other message, but i have not seen it displayed yet. I may have to try to work it together again and post.
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Tellgryn




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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptySun Jul 31, 2022 10:59 pm

Frank you should have that mail and may get a kick out of the John Williams name pulled out of the blue from Browne book.

Jullian if you read this look into the 7 sailors at Roake's Drift when Chelmsford's column returns Jan 23.

John Williams is one of those sailors, is there any records of him from the war?
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Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 2:07 pm

Tellgryn,

I am interested in your statement about “the seven sailors at Rorke’s Drift when Chelmsford’s column returns Jan 23”. Where did you find that information?

Tom
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 4:09 pm

Tellgryn
Interesting comments I would really like to hear more.

Frank
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Julian Whybra




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Location : Billericay, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 5:02 pm

Seven sailors?? At RD??? Are you sure of your sources? Careful here or you might run aground!!
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Tellgryn




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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 6:14 pm

They appear to be from the NNC and Jack Williams should be on that roll. Jack is more or less a pirate, who seems to have enlisted in the NNC as an NCO.

Was with Walker and Garibaldi and many other adventures.

Browne knew Jack from his days in New Zealand.

It seems the NNC has many sailors filling in the nco spots.
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1879graves

1879graves


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 7:10 pm

Hi Tellgryn

Well what can I say, you have got many of us intrigued scratch scratch

Andy
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 8:36 pm

There was a Corporal J. Williams, of the 1st Battalion, 3rd Regiment, Natal Native Contingent, from King William’s Town, Cape Colony.

Corporal Nicholas Le Tocq, of the same unit, was a former merchant seaman, his next-of-kin resided near Cobo Bay, Castel Parish, Guernsey, Channel Islands.

Le Tocq assisted in the ferrying of troops across the Mzinyathi River, after iSandlwana.

Le Tocq would join No. 3 Troop, Natal Horse on the disbandment of 3rd Regiment, N.N.C., and as such was part of the Prince Imperial’s escort on 1st June 1879.

Le Tocq returned to the Channel Islands and seafaring after the Zulu War.  He would perish along with six other ship mates in January 1886, with the loss of the three-masted schooner The Rifleman.

JY


Last edited by John Young on Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Le Tocq’s surname corrected JY)
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ADMIN

ADMIN


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 8:41 pm

Should be interesting!
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 9:41 pm

Tellgryn
Are you saying that there were 7 former sailors who were in the NNC in 1879 and were at Rorke's Drift?
And that one of them was a Jack Williams? And that these 7 are in addition to the five 2/3 NCOs and one 1/3 NCO known to have been present? Or do they overlap?
It's important to be clear.
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 9:45 pm

Julian,

I’m surmising that they arrived after the action.

JY
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyMon Aug 01, 2022 9:51 pm

JY
So am I but I'd like Tellgryn to be absolutely clear about what he IS saying so that our replies can be equally transparent!
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyTue Aug 02, 2022 4:56 pm

Julian,

Look at Chapter XIII, Page 146 of A Lost Legionary in South Africa for Jack Williams.

JY
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyTue Aug 02, 2022 5:27 pm

Tellgryn,

I take that you realise that George Hamilton Browne was something of self-publicist and a yarn-spinner? Those were amongst his nicer traits.

JY
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Tellgryn




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PostSubject: Re: Things I need to know about....   Things I need to know about.... EmptyThu Aug 04, 2022 5:30 pm

No afterwards, Browne come later in the day, so they came before him and appear to be within his command.

Just interesting to me that 7 sailors are in the NNC.

That could be why they had some much difficulty handling the marches the day before.


Glad to see you reply to John, I can look into John Williams. I have the rolls of Walker's expedition somewhere.

If John Williams is with Walker, he likely was on the 2 Cuban and the 2 Mexican expeditions, before going to Italy and being with Garibaldi. Which as I wrote Frank means he is an association of R.C. Wheat.

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