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 The brother of Even Jones

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Eddie




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The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 4:16 am

All.

Do we know who the brother of Evans Jones was.
In a newspaper article Evans states he also has a brother who served 36 years in the forces, but no regiment is mentioned.
Do we know if Evans brother was in the same regiment, and one of the Jones defenders at Rorke's Drift.

Were any other Jones defender born in Welshpool or enlist at the same location, or have ancestry links?

If not, do we know if he served in the Zulu war in any other regiment.

Eddie
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Eddie




Posts : 495
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The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 8:23 pm

Admin, can I ask why my post and enquiry has been removed from the rolling latest topics screen? Having posted it much later than most that appear.
May it be that someone is working on this subject.?
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Kenny




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Location : Brecon

The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 8:38 pm

Perhaps the brother served under the family name - Cosgrove?

You have a choice to search: Batholomew, William, John and James
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Eddie




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The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 9:15 pm

Thank you Kenny.

Are you saying that Evan Jones was not his real name, or that the brother chose another branch name?
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Kenny




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 10:58 pm

Evan Jones, RD defender, real name was Patrick Cosgrove.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 11:33 pm

Thank you Kenny.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySat Sep 17, 2022 11:38 pm

Kenny, that's seems odd considering a number of different newspaper articles are naming him as such. He must have been using that name himself over forty years after RD.
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John Young

John Young


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The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 12:55 am

Eddie,

What about John Williams V.C.? He also served under an assumed name for a number of years.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 1:40 am

John.

Yes John served under an alias, but on leaving the army he  reverted to his real name. 
I'm saying that the name Evan Jones was still being used over forty years after RD according to this article. I have read that his alias was Patrick Cosgrove, that his real name is Jones.??
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 1:47 am

John/Kenny

Evans Jones real name is Jones, even his grandson at his rededication is named Jones, I think you may be mistaken.
His rededication photos are on the site.
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John Young

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The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 1:48 am

Eddie,

Yet John Fielding retained his alias throughout his militia service into 1890’s and again used it when he returned to the Colours for the Great War.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 1:55 am

Thank you John.

With respect, I was referring to Evan Jones, his real name was Jones, his family are named Jones, Cosgrove I believe was his alias.
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John Young

John Young


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The brother of Even Jones Empty
PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 2:09 am

Eddie,

Just trying to prove something to you.

I think you can believe Kenny’s findings as being correct given the amount research he has done on the 24th Regiment.

It is not unusual for families to retain the assumed name.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 3:23 am

John.

Come to think of it, I recall Julian saying his ancestors name was changed and kept. I'm sure Kenny would know. Isn't that strange.
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Kenny




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 10:50 am

It is so easy to view the past through modern eyes with today's mountain of beaucary and technology. Remember the man in street in Victorian times did not pay tax, the few official documents were handwritten, mistakes ocurred, in subsquently time transcription errors often crepted in. There was freedom as to how people wished to be named. Some at least 10% soldiers in Victorian times served under an assumed name or altered name. My own grandfather enlisted in 1893 and served in the ABW and WW1 - the recruiting sergeant got his name wrong - this error is the family name today. There has been no official change of name. We continue to respect the recruiting sergeant's error.

It does seem to me strange that with all these recent posts of newspaper articles about AZW veterans. Easy to do - search 'Zulu' - no hard research - let technology do the work. We seem to have learnt very little new about the courageous soldiers who took part in the AZW. There would be few members of this forum who would be able to march up, in the heat of the sun, from PMB to the battlefields today.







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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 11:42 am

Thank you Kenny that's all seems logical.

I see you are a local man. Can I ask did you attend the rededication to Evan Jones? 
The reason I ask is it was an ideal opportunity to talk to his grandson about family ties to the regiment, assuming he knew his great uncle also completed 36 years with the colours somewhere, maybe AZW.
I noticed that both Evan and his brother were town or county trumpeters, perhaps a link to his regiment lie in that area of research. It would be quite a story if both were there together at RD, obviously he also having used an alias, as there was no Cosgrove as we know.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptyThu Sep 22, 2022 12:27 pm

Hi Kenny/All.

I am in touch with Gareth Watkins, he was at the rededication for Evans Jones, Evan being his Great uncle.
We know through a newspaper article that Evans brother also served 36 years with the colours, but it doesn't specify which brother or regiment.
Kenny you mentioned four Cosgrove's that served in the war, Batholomew, William, John, James.
I can confirm that Evan Jones/Cosgrove born 1853 Nantyglo had a brother Batholomew Cosgrove born Apr 1854 Nantyglo and a brother John Cosgrove born 1857-1917 Nantyglo.
Their parents were John Cosgrove born 1824-1883 Adar Limerick Ireland, and Tabitha Evans 1829-1882, married 8th Nov 1852 at Blaina, Monmouthshire, St Wales.
Their parents had 7 children, so far Gareth has identified  the three brothers mentioned. William and James mentioned in an above post may also be brothers, we don't know at present.
Gareth has identified John Cosgrove as his great grandfather and through me has requested any further information that may come to light about the service details of the brothers. 

Many thanks Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add text)
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptyThu Sep 22, 2022 9:51 pm

Hi Kenny

I understand now that you were implying that the four named, Batholomew, William, John, and James, were the actual brothers of Evan. 
Gareth has sent me more information, John 1857-1927, his wifes first name was Margaret 1859-1933.
Once again any information on where they may have served would be greatly appreciated.

Eddie
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptyFri Sep 23, 2022 3:53 pm

Hi Kate/John.

I wonder if you can help me on the above post. I have an updated list of Evans siblings. Gareth is interested to find out if any of Evans brothers also served in the Zulu war, in particular his great grandfather John 1857-1917. Gareth having been at the rededication of his great uncle Evan in August.

Evan 1853-1931
Batholomew 1854-
William 1855-1909
John 1857-1917 /Gareth's great grandfather
Eliza 1860
Charles 1864-.    To young/ unless drummer boy- joined RA 1885. This probably the brother mentioned in the newspaper article.
James 1869-1917 To young.

I had been conferring with Kenny but I don't know if he had missed my resent post or not.

Cheers Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptyFri Sep 23, 2022 4:04 pm

Ultimately there was no Patrick Cosgrove in the 24th. There was an Evan Jones. It is Evan Jones that is the alias assumed for the military.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: The brother of Even Jones   The brother of Even Jones EmptyFri Sep 23, 2022 4:21 pm

Thank you Julian.

Evan Jones/Cosgrove is well known defender, as mentioned above. 
The request from Gareth is, did any of his brothers-Cosgrove, listed, serve in any regiment in the war, not just 24th.
It is known one of the brothers also served 36 years in the colours, as it was mentioned in Evan's newspaper article.
In particular he is interested in his great grandfather John, as mentioned.

Eddie
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