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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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 Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC

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WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior


Posts : 250
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC Empty
PostSubject: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptySun Nov 20, 2022 1:05 am

Came upon this excerpt regarding the NNC with Durnford at Isandlwana...

Capt. Harry Dymes, 1/1 NNC
‘The three Companies detached from my regiment consisted of Sikali’s men, and was under the command of Captains Nourse, Stafford and myself. But at the last moment I was ordered to take up the duties of the paymaster who had suddenly fallen ill, and my company was divided between the other two captains.” E. Durnford, p. 213

Seems to me the only unaccounted for Officer from the 1/1 who MAY have been at Isandlwana is Capt. David Murray Smythe. All a bit conjectural, but if Dymes had his Coy divvied up, junior Officers would potentially be reassigned as well. Do we have a date of rank for Smythe or any further details on the Officers assigned to Dymes' Coy?

Cheers,
Michael
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3209
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Location : Billericay, Essex

Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC Empty
PostSubject: Re: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptySat Nov 26, 2022 9:58 am

Smythe was appointed captain in the 1/1st Regt. N.N.C. (General Orders No. 203, 21st November 1878, Times of Natal, 25th November 1878).
Dymes's coy was heavily under strength (about 40 men). This is why its men were re-allocated to D and E coys. I doubt whether it had any subalterns at all.
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WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior


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Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC Empty
PostSubject: Re: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptySat Nov 26, 2022 8:52 pm

Excellent, seems to sum that up quite well. Do wonder where Smythe came from though.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptySun Nov 27, 2022 9:32 am

In 1870 Smythe was commissioned in the Black Watch (Royal Perthshire Rifles); joined the 79th Regt. (Cameron Highlanders) as a sub-lieutenant, 8th May 1872; retired from it 23rd January 1878 as a lieutenant (The London Gazette, issue no. 24545, 22nd January 1878).
His rôle in No. 2 Column is unclear but he held the South Africa Medal with Clasp 1878-9.  According to The Graphic and Terry Sole he returned (was invalided?) to Britain shortly after Isandhlwana.  Rejoined the 3rd bn Black Watch as a captain, 29th June 1880; ended in 1897 as lieutenant-colonel commanding the battalion.  Born 17.11.1850; married Katherine Jane Bagot 17.9.1898; had one child, Barbara; died 10.2.1928. Neither regimental museum holds any record of his Zulu War experiences.
(From England's Sons 9th ed.)


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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rai




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Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC Empty
PostSubject: Re: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptyMon Nov 28, 2022 4:28 am

Hi All,
A little more on David Murray Smythe, he was born 17 Nov 1850 in St Cuthbert's Edinburgh, son of William Smythe of Methven Castle Perth. He rejoined £rd Batt Royal Highlanders a Militia Regiment. He is on the 1871 census at Sandhurst Military College. 1881 and 1891 census he is at his fathers Methven Castle which he inherited when his father died. His wife Katherine Jane died 13 Jan 1952 age 93. He died in a Dundee Nursing Home on 10 Feb 1928 , they are buried together in Methven Chuchyard.
Rai Keynshamlighthorse.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptyMon Nov 28, 2022 12:06 pm

Rai
Thanks for spotting the typo which I've corrected (as well as the other one which you didn't spot! I managed to switch the dates).
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC   Capts. Dymes and Smythe, 1/1 NNC EmptyMon Nov 28, 2022 3:42 pm

I have in the past been in touch with the family.  It seems David Murray S. went out to Natal to visit his brother Charles John S. who had emigrated there aged 19 in 1872 and had held a number of admin. posts in the colony culminating with being prime minister 1905-06.  While David Murray S. was there the ZW cropped up and he put himself forward and was accepted.  By the by, the surname is pronounced Smith to rhyme with kith.
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