Latest topics | » Brothers SearsToday at 2:30 am by Eddie » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Yesterday at 4:15 pm by rai » A Bullet BibleMon Oct 07, 2024 11:41 am by Eddie » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 » 1879 South Africa Medal named 1879 BARSun Oct 06, 2024 12:41 pm by Dash » A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:16 pm by Julian Whybra » Isandlwana papers he,d by the RE museum Sun Oct 06, 2024 6:06 am by 90th » An Irish V.C. conundrum?Thu Oct 03, 2024 10:51 am by Julian Whybra » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableFri Sep 27, 2024 9:12 am by Julian Whybra » William Moore / William Potter 24th RegimentThu Sep 26, 2024 3:04 pm by Dash » Stalybridge men in the 24thThu Sep 26, 2024 2:24 pm by Dash » Grave of Henry SpaldingWed Sep 25, 2024 3:24 pm by Kenny » Thomas P Kensole and James J MitchellMon Sep 23, 2024 4:04 pm by Samnoco » flocking stands to historical accuracySun Sep 22, 2024 8:05 pm by GCameron » Private 25B/483 Joseph Phelan 1/24th RegimentFri Sep 20, 2024 5:22 pm by Dash » Updated list of Zulu War Veterans who came to Australia or New ZealandFri Sep 20, 2024 12:31 am by krish » A story regarding Younghusband's charge. Hearsay or a possibility? Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Nine of the 24thThu Sep 19, 2024 10:24 am by Julian Whybra » Colour Sergeant 2296 James Hannon HawkinsThu Sep 19, 2024 8:00 am by Samnoco » S.S. Solway Campbell/O'Keefe/Quigley 24th RegimentWed Sep 18, 2024 8:56 pm by Dash » Private 25B/2185 Owen Salmons alias Martin MacNamara? 1/24thWed Sep 18, 2024 8:44 pm by Bill8183 » Fort Evelyn and the grave of the 58th Regiment Drum MajorSun Sep 15, 2024 5:59 pm by 1879graves » Telescope v. field glassesSun Sep 15, 2024 10:20 am by 90th » Photo Lonsdales HorseTue Sep 10, 2024 10:10 pm by ciroferrara » Soldier 13th regiment of foot Natal new photo Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:32 pm by ciroferrara » Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th RegimentMon Sep 09, 2024 1:33 pm by Dash » Lieutenant & Adjutant Spencer Frederick Chichester, 2nd 21stMon Sep 09, 2024 11:56 am by Rory Reynolds » In search of the 80th FootSun Sep 08, 2024 6:39 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Sun Sep 08, 2024 4:43 pm by Dash » THE DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDALThu Sep 05, 2024 11:16 pm by Julian Whybra » 9312 Sapper H Cuthbert 5th Field Coy REWed Sep 04, 2024 11:53 am by Julian Whybra » Who’s who in this photo?Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:44 pm by ianwood » Sir Robert William Jackson Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:24 am by Julian Whybra » Memorial to WolseleySun Sep 01, 2024 8:47 pm by John Young » Last of the 24th at IsandhlwanaSun Sep 01, 2024 7:51 am by Julian Whybra |
October 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » A Bullet BibleSun Oct 06, 2024 8:02 pm by Eddie » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 3:23 pm by Bill8183 » Isandlwana papers he,d by the RE museum Thu Oct 03, 2024 3:01 pm by Danny1960 » An Irish V.C. conundrum?Tue Oct 01, 2024 10:17 am by Julian Whybra » A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:25 pm by lydenburg » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:12 am by Samnoco » Grave of Henry SpaldingWed Sep 25, 2024 12:43 pm by Richard Spalding » Stalybridge men in the 24thTue Sep 24, 2024 6:48 pm by Dash » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableFri Sep 20, 2024 4:54 pm by Julian Whybra |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:56 am | |
| I recently picked up a long box with 11 Zulu spears. It seems Lt. Col. W. Lambert CB of the 88th Connaught Rangers boxed them up using unused coffin wood and sent them back to England to Mr. Flight Military Outfitter, Winchester Hants. I remember doing some research on these some 30 years ago and it seems he got them from an Isandlwana battlefield visit. I believe he wrote a report on identifying the dead officers. Does anyone know of his report. Thanks John. |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3311 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:31 pm | |
| Blueboy,
I wonder if you are confusing Lieutenant-Colonel William Lambert, C.B., of the 88th (Connaught Rangers) Regiment with Veterinary Surgeon 1st Class James Lambert, of the 17th (Duke of Cambridge’s Own) Lancers?
To my knowledge James Lambert did accompany patrols to iSandlwana, and served with the operations of the 17th Lancers throughout the regiment’s service in the campaign. Whereas William Lambert commanded the 88th which was involved in the operations on the Indian Ocean coastal columns.
I can find no obvious link to William Lambert visiting the battlefield of iSandlwana at this time. Rather than the 1879 campaign against the Zulu, which the 88th’s contribution was fairly minimal. I would venture a guess that the spears might originate from the 9th Cape Frontier War against the AmaXhosa, a campaign in which the 88th were in the forefront of.
JY |
| | | blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:03 am | |
| Hi JY, many thanks for your input. I am aware of Lambert the vet (I have no idea if he was a rele.). I don't believe W. Lambert was part of an official burial party but could understand a Commanding Officer of a fine Infantry Regiment wanting to visit one of the worst disasters in British Military History. It appears his command was broken up and fairly well dispersed perhaps giving him the opportunity to visit. If I was a CO I would want to go to the battlefield to try and understand and interpret what went wrong. I believe Lambert was at Fort Napier for a while, but I have no idea how far away it is from Isandlwana. Thanks again John |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana spears picked up by a Burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:21 am | |
| Hi Blueboy Distance from Fort Napier to Isandlwana is about 200 Klm's . 90th |
| | | blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:26 am | |
| Many thanks 90th. Not exactly a hop step and a jump. Cheers John |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana spears picked up by a Burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:28 am | |
| Hi John Yes agreed ! . A damn long way to walk ! 90th |
| | | blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:55 am | |
| Even in the saddle you would have a few blisters! But I can't seem to find much out on Lt. Col. W. Lambert CB movements during the conflict. I would imagine he would have to move about his many unit deployments. The history on the box of spears is that a local Antique dealer bought them from a general antique dealer in the UK over 30 years ago. The UK dealer sold half the spears plus a letter from Lambert to one chap and the box containing the rest to our local dealer. The box lid is 6 foot 2 inches long and 8 & 3/4 inches wide. The very old address is painted on with the whole thing screaming age. Another thing that doesn't seem to be really spelt out is did the Zulus leave the battlefield covered with spears of their dead or did they pick them up for reuse? |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana spears picked up by a Burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:00 am | |
| Yes Blueboy it's an interesting subject regarding the spears of the deceased at Isandlwana . 90th |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3311 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:04 am | |
| Blueboy,
As to William Lambert’s movements during the Zulu War I will quote extracts from The South African Campaign of 1879: Lieut.-Colonel. W. Lambert, C.B. Was in command of the regt. throughout the war, including the march up country subsequently to the concentration of the six cos. at the Lower Tugela.
Immediately after the occurrence of the disaster at Isandhlwana, in Jan., 1879, orders were received to move at once with all available men to Natal. …consequently the Hd.-Qrs. and one co., under Col. Lambert, C.B., proceeded to Pietermaritzburg…
Précising the remaining text in May 1879 the 88th concentrated on the Lower Tugela, forming part of the 1st Brigade of Major-General H.H. Crealock’s 1st - Coastal - Division. In June 1879 the Division advanced using a series of forts as protection Fort Crealock; Fort Chelmsford & Fort Napoleon to Port Durnford where a proposed landing site was established. At this about this time Sir Garnet Wolseley assumed command of British forces in Southern Africa. The 88th received orders to march from Fort Chelmsford to Eshowe. With conclusion of the peace treaty the 88th was broken up into detachments and were stationed at Eshowe, Fort Chelmsford & Fort Crealock. At the beginning of August the 88th were ordered to return to Natal. The 88th concentrated at Pinetown at the end of August, from there they moved to Durban, where they embarked for Cape Town. On 1st October 1879 the 88th sailed from the Cape to India.
As you can see William Lambert had little or no opportunity to visit the field of iSandlwana, given as 90th has pointed out the distances involved.
JY |
| | | blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:15 am | |
| |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3311 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:19 am | |
| |
| | | blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:37 am | |
| |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Isandlwana spears picked up by a Burial party Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:08 am | |
| Thanks for posting the pics Blueboy 90th |
| | | Brett Hendey
Posts : 269 Join date : 2010-12-02 Location : Kloof, KZN
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:56 am | |
| Blueboy, I add my thanks for your postings.
The Zulus used different ways to bind spear blades to their wooden shafts. Up to 1879 the common (? and only) way was to use a length of cattle tail skin dried and shrunk over the link. This seems to apply to the stabbing spear on top of the pile in the box, although I have not previously seen a white connection. The dried skin is usually dark brown or black.
After 1879 and the reduction of the Zulu army, the armourers turned to easier and cheaper methods, such as binding the link with reeds or metal (copper and steel) wires.
There must be many well documented Zulu War spears in UK collections to settle the issue of the linking technique used at the time.
Regards Brett
|
| | | blueboy
Posts : 7 Join date : 2023-02-15
| Subject: Re: Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:03 am | |
| Thanks Brett I had a look at the long ones, and they seem to be bound with strips of leather with one exception which is also a full length white one piece. cheers Blueboy. |
| | | | Isandlwana spears picked up by a burial party | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |