Gatling gun in the zulu war:

Posts : 1093 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London

I was told this was a Zulu War Gatling Gun. Can anyone confirm.

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Subject: gatling gun Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:43 am

hi oldh2.
Sure is , this photo is in " THE NATIONAL ARMY MUSEUM BOOK OF THE ZULU WAR "
by I. KNIGHT, The caption says........ MAJOR J.F. OWEN OF 10 BATTERY , 7TH BRIGADE, R.A.
with one of the two gatling guns he commanded at the battle of Ulundi.
cheers 90th.

Posts : 3379 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Hi all

For a photo of Major Owen's grave, please see Pictorial catalogue of AZW graves Section

Posts : 747 Join date : 2009-10-18

You are one amazing guy. How do you find these Graves so quickly? Do me a favour see if you can find mine? Wink

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

Mr Greaves. I have often wondered how he finds them so quickly. But I just glad 1879Graves is on this forum.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Doe's anyone have a photo of the workings of the Gatling gun. A dissected photo would be excellent, even better with the names of the various parts. 3D Image would make my day. Look forward to your replies.

Identfication markings if possible.

Subject: Re: Gatling gun in the zulu war: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:09 pm

Hi John. Just to get you started. I will have a look for some more.

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Subject: Re: Gatling gun in the zulu war: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:15 pm

This link may be useful:-

http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun4.htm

JohnB

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Thanks Littlehand. Was this the type used during the Zulu War? I should have said. And I forgot to ask. "Did the Gatling use the same ammunition as the Martini Henry?

Thanks JohnB. I will take a look when I log off.

Posts : 3379 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

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Subject: gatling gun Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:09 am

hi John.
The Gatling fired .450 boxer cartridge the same calibre as the M.H.
cheers 90th.

Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

90th
Not exactly. The Gatling did fire a .450 calibre boxer cartridge, but was a smaller diameter case, this was to facilitate easier feed from the hopper, inlike the Mk3 Martini round which was .450 bottle necked to .577, the gatling was closer to .510, the more parrallel sides meant the gravity feed did not feed the round end first due to the overbalance.

I will sort out the detailed drawing of it.

In 1885, when the small arms committee were meeting to discuss the future cartidge for the Martini Henry in .402" calibre it was muted that the rifle was to be bushed to accomodate the Gatling round.

In fact the .402" experiment was a non starter as the ordnace department did not want yet another differing cartrige to go with the .540/577 Martini Mk3 round and the .450 Boxer gatling., and, the proposals being muted for ther .303 Metford system.

Asa result all .402 Enfield Martini Mk1's pattern A and B (apporx 56,000) that had been made were re-bored to .450, and became the Martini Henry Mk4 pattern A & B.

Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25

Did the Gatling gun really surpass military expectations? Was it easy to maintain, when it jammed was it easy to fix, if one barrel fowled up, would it still work.

And there’s one question I need top ask. When firing a Gatling gun the user needs to rotate the handles. Could they be turned faster to increase the rate of fire and slower to de-crease, or did they have to be rotated at the same consistency.

Guest

24th

I hope this link is found helpful. It does answer the question about being able to fire it one barrel jams. The lock for the barrell that is jammed is removed and firing is continued with the remaining 9 barrels.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=pQgHAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Petty Officer Tom

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Thanks for all your help. But don't forget if you come across any blue prints of the Gatling Gun please let me know. It will be much appricated.

Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

In the comfort of my home, I now have the size comparison M-H to gatling
L=MH 3.15 " G=3.30
neck dia = MH .50" g= .492"
Base dia MH .64" G= .57"
Shoulder MH .62" G=.53"
Case size empty MH 2.31" G=2.35"

bullet was and charge the same.

The HMSO 1877 publication " Treatise on ammuntion" states "though this cartridge is the same calibre as the M-H, the cartirdges are not interchangeable,the dimoesions are different, the MH ammuntion was found not to answer the Gatling gun"

Subject: gatling gun Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:09 am

hi Neil.
Thanks for clearing up the MH cartridge info in regard to the Gatling Gun , myself and the other forum members
are pleased you are able to answer these very technical questions . Idea

cheers 90th.

Subject: Re: Gatling gun in the zulu war: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:55 pm

Echo that 90th.
I think Neil should publish a Book on the weapons used during the Zulu War. (I would be your first Customer) Idea

Subject: gatling gun. Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:49 am

hi littlehand .
I would be 2nd . :lol!: .
cheers 90th.

Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

Chaps,
thank you, I'll make sure you get a signed copy! ha ha, actualy Mike Snook keeps pressuring me to in ihs words "get scribbling" and I must make a start. I have been assisting him on the weapons used in the Sudan for his new publication due out shortly.
This a study of a couple of Rifles in my collection, a comparison of an 1873 Mk2 and and 1879 Mk3. (Which you can see if you visit the ZululFilm Exhibiton in London).
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Subject: gatling gun Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:42 am

hi Neil.
All right then ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who told you to stop scribbling :lol!: . I am sure we all know where that line comes from :) .
Maybe Snookie has a point !. I am sure you would do a book justice , magnificent weapons thanks for the photo's.
cheers 90th.

Subject: Re: Gatling gun in the zulu war: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:45 pm

Write your one book. Take all the credit. Idea

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Anyone had any luck yet. Idea

Posts : 1093 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London

Hi John.
I have found quite a few blue prints relating to the gatling gun. But they need to be purchased. And there not cheap. I could post some links if your interested.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

What colour would the Gatling gun have been. ( Was it Gun Metal)

Posts : 96 Join date : 2010-03-28 Location : England

I put these pictures together for the guy making the Total War Zulu mod as he's goin' to try his hand at making a Gat' gun ...

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Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

I hope this works, me and the Gatling, then the artillery crew at Audley End enjoy boys..not as much as I did.
Its an 1874 Armstrong Gatlng, Gun number 74, Henry Rifled firing full No2 Musket blanks....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piMrYMq6bkA&feature=player_embedded

Posts : 3379 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Hi Neil

I hope you do not mind me putting your link up like this

Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

Spot on,wind up the volume!

Subject: Gatling Gun Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:22 am

Hi Neil.
Magnificent , what can I say . Love it . :lol:
cheers 90th.

Subject: Re: Gatling gun in the zulu war: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:42 am

Neil
Well done, I assume the Martini neil monica doesnt refer to your choice of tipple? :lol!:

Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25

How long would it take to refill a Gatling gun canister. Or did they come as a fixed unit only to be used once.

Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

The drum holds 240 rounds, It is turned upside down and a rotating dial slot allows access to each chamber. It is filled bullet noses in into each magazine slot, each slot holding 15 rounds which are fed in by hand individually, once full the dial is turned opening the next magazine slot. Once full the dial is turned to a blank position.The process takes about 3-4 minutes.
The drum is rotated and carried to the gun with a brass handle on the top.

The drum is seated on an access pin above the chamber, and the slot is centralised above the breech opening. The dial is turned and the bullets drop by gravity into each breech as it rotates, a small handle allows the bombardier to assist the feed by pushing down (not too much or it jams) on the handle. Once the mag slot is empty, the bombardier turns the drum to the next ratchet position and the process begins again.

The action is very simple, the bullet falls into the chamber, a block drives forward and rams it into the breech, in the same movement a claw grips the bullet rim, next turn the firing pin rams forward and fires the case, next turn the block pulls back and the claw pulls laterally on the case rim and is ejected, the barrel then turns 300 degrees with an empty chamber ready for the next action.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Neil. Big thanks for posting the film footage. Would loved to have been there. Better still to have cranked the handle. Looking at the guy cranking the handle, he looks quite uncomfortable in the sitting position, would it have been better to operate the gun from a standing position. Also there must be a nack to turning the handle to keep a consistent flow of fire. Idea

Posts : 747 Join date : 2009-10-18

I didn't realise how much smoke these weapons caused. During the Battles in which these were used along with the rifle fire the visibility must have been minimal. Was the ammo used in this film identical to that used in the Zulu War.
or was it made to give the smoke effect.

Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough

These were special kynock made No2 Musket crimped end , black powder blanks in No2 Musket, nominally the same as the Gatling round. The crimped end ensures level feed (jams still happen) and accurate feed into the chamber.

Smoke is just what you get.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

My camp was pitched within thirty yards of the site of the famous hollow square and about four hundred from that of Nodwengu, and the morning after arrival I started to explore the ruins of Ulundi, under the guidance of an old Zulu who had formerly been one of the head men of the Undakaombi kraal.
At the bottom of the slope I dismounted to examine one or two of the skulls lying about among the grass, some being remarkably large and well developed ones. I drew my guide's attention to this, as he stood curiously watching me. The old man smiled rather mourn- fully and shook his head.

"Yes,' he said, ' we lost some fine men — numbers of them. What could we do against you English ? You stand still, and only by turning something round make the bodies of our warriors fly to pieces ; legs here, arms there, heads, everything. Whouw! — What can we do against that" ?

Source: Mitford, Bertram

Subject: Re: Gatling gun in the zulu war: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:48 am

I have fired one of the later models with the mechanical drum magazine, US of course, much better feeding.

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Subject: Gatling Gun in the zulu war Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:47 am

Hi 45Govt.
There would be many on here that would dearly love to have a go at that ! . Me , being one of them . Suspect

.
cheers 90th . Thanks for sharing the photo .

Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21

Was there ever an official report written regarding the Gatling Guns performance during the Zulu War. And was it just the Naval Brigade that manned these guns.

Guest

Dave,

I am not familiar with any official report on the Gatling in the Zulu War.

The Naval Brigade used the Gatling in action at the Battle of Inyezane and again at Gingindlovu.

The Army provided the Gatlings at Ulundi.

Petty Officer Tom

Subject: Gatling guns in zululand Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:28 pm

Hi All.
When the transport ship Clyde went down it did take 4 Gatling Guns with it . I wonder if these guns and ammo and whatever else went
down with it were ever salvaged ?.
cheers 90th. Idea

Guest

90th,

Apr 5 1879 report from Captain Liddell of HMS Tamar to Captain Adeane, HMS Tenedos, Senior Officer at Simon’s Bay:

“After consultation with Staff Commander Rowe, of H.M.S. ‘Flora,’ Mr. John Danvers, Lloyd’s surveyor, etc., I was of the opinion that the ‘Clyde’ was totally lost; and as the anchorage is very exposed, and there is usually a very heavy surf running on the beach, no advantage would occur by attempting to salve the cargo by one of Her Majesty’s ships.”

Apr 6 1879 Letter “Reporting Loss of the Transport Clyde” from Captain Adeane to Commodore Richards, HMS Boadicea, Natal:

“In a consultation with Captain Liddell, Staff-Commander Rowe, and Mr. Danvers, Lloyd's agent, I came to the opinion that the "Clyde" was totally lost, but told Mr. Danvers that I would communicate further with the agents, Messrs. Searight and Co., Cape Town, about the cargo.”

I don’t know if the Gatlings were ever salvaged, or not; but I would be certain that the ammunition was a total loss due to the sea water.

Petty Officer Tom

Guest

Hello gunners

"The drum Holds 240 rounds, It Is Turned upside down and a rotating dial slot Allow Access To Each chamber. It Is filled in bullet noses Into EACH magazine slot, slot holding 15 rounds EACH Which are fed in by hand Individually, the full oz iS Turned the dial opening next magazine slot. Once the full dial iS Turned to a blank position.The process Takes about 3-4 minutes. "

So if I understand it, in battle, the rate of fire is 240 rpm at maximun?

Cheers

Pascal

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