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 Memorial at Llanglydwen

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Eddie




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PostSubject: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 2:32 am

Hi all 

Evening Express 19th November 1901:

Memorial at Llanglydwen church 

A very large number of friends congregated at Llanglydwen church yesterday afternoon to do honour to the memory of the late Mr Frank Protheroe, Dolwilym, who acted as Sergeant Major with the Pembroke Yeomanry (30th company) in South Africa, and fell a victim to enteric fever at Springfontein in May last year.
One of the features of the Pembroke Squadron -remarked upon the time of its enrolment - was very wide difference between social positions of rank and file.
Landowners sons rubbed shoulders with artisans, and tradespeople with the scions of county magistrates, and of the latter was Sergeant Frank Protheroe.
He was, Moreover , the only Pembrokeshire man in the company who had previously seen active services, having held a commission for seven years, and served through the Zulu war.

The long article goes on to say:

The Llanglydwen memorials, together with those recently unveiled to the memory of the late Sergeant Ralph Williams at Lampeter - Velfrey church, and of Lieutenant Colonel Cropper at Maenclochog church, show how deeply West Wales appreciate the sacrifices made by the Yeomanry company which specially represented it in South Africa.

There are the following memorials sited by the family and friends:
At Llanglydwen church a memorial in the form of lychgate, made of oak, inscribed: Erected Anno Domini , 1901, by numerous friends in this and adjoining counties - In memory of Frank F.L.S. Protheroe, who, after fourteen months arduous services as a volunteer in the Pembrokeshire Imperial Yeomanry died at Springfontein, May 26th, 1901, mentioned in despatches by Lord Roberts.

An illuminated memorial window was sited at the West end of the church by the family.


Last edited by Eddie on Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add more detail)
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rai




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 8:01 am

Hi All
Cannot find anything relating to the Zulu war for this man, only thing i did find was a newspaper report 30 Aug 1879 stating he was at The Hermitage School Bath, and in 1881 he was playing football for Bath F.C. His full name being, Frank Frederick Lewis Schaw Protheroe.
Rai KLH
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 9:28 am

Hi All 

Some more info:

wwI.wales 
West Wales memorial Project 

Carmarthenshire Boer war memorial - WWI Wales:

Francis Frederick Lewes Schaw Protheroe, Sergeant Major 4182, Imperial Yeomanry. Frank was the son of Edward Schaw Protheroe, and of Ellen Augusta Cecilia Protheroe, of Dolwilym mansion, near WHITLAND. He was a long serving soldier and had fought in the Zulu war of 1877 - 1879. He died of enteric fever at Springfontein on 26 May 1901, aged 37. He is not commemorated on Carmarthen county Boer war memorial, but on the Pembrokeshire county memorial.

This would make him 15 years of age or younger as he entered the war, depending which years between 77-79.

He is probably listed in Hart's Annual Army list, militia list, and Imperial Yeomanry list.
On googling his name on my phone I couldn't completely see the death list. I did manage to locate in index page 634: Protheroe Dav. Garrick Edward Schaw, Special reserve.

Having done some more searching I found two officers Gazetted 19 Nov 14 as Territorial, that includes David  above , late Lt to Capt, and Godfrey Evan Schaw Protheroe - Beynon,  late Capt Territorial Yeomanry to Major.
These may be Francis's brothers.


Last edited by Eddie on Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:02 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Add more info)
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rai




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 12:06 pm

Hi All
Frank appears on the 1871 census aged 7 born 1864, his father was Edward Schaw Protheroe Surg-Maj Royal Artillery, address Royal Academy Woolwich.
Frank seems to be to young to have served in the Zulu War his father born 1824 did not serve either.
Rai KLH
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 1:48 pm

The father, Edward Schaw Protheroe, attained the rank of Deputy-Inspector General in the Army Medical Department. His obituary can be found in The British Medical Journal of 1906.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 2:19 pm

Here he is!

The Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment), Gentleman Cadet Francis Frederick Lewis Schaw Protheroe, from the Royal Military College, to be Lieutenant, on augmentation.
Dated 7th February, 1885.

I have checked Hart’s for 1886, but is no mention of any previous active service.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 7:35 pm

Hi All 

Seems very odd that we have no link, when two separate memorials state that he was in the Zulu war, also state that he was a long serving soldier, and seen active service before he ever saw active service in the Boer war and dying of fever.

rai it depends what role he may have played in the war, whether he was to young or not, there were others there at the same age.
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rai




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 9:27 pm

Hi All
Has anyone seen the actual memorial, or are we going by what is stated in a newspaper/book.
Rai KLH
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 10:30 pm

Appears in 1886 to 1889 Hart’s, the resignation of his commission appears on Page 785 of 1890 edition.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 10:37 pm

Got it!

His battalion formed the Natal Garrison between 1884 until 1887, there were some “disturbances” with AmaZulu during that time period.

JY


Last edited by John Young on Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 10:39 pm

rai 

It's not only in a newspaper article it's also in the Carmarthenshire Boer war - WWI memorial website, as mentioned above.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 10:52 pm

Hi All 

If you Google his complete name you will see the Carmarthenshire Boer war - WWI memorial site come up, he is mentioned in there, and listed on the Pembroke Memorial.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyThu Aug 24, 2023 11:29 pm

Inaccurate initial reporting has been compounded by repetition, and accepted without question.

JY
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 12:10 am

Hi All / John 

Yes it maybe John.

In The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser, 3fd Apr 1903 is a list of the deaths, this is what is said about Frank:

Mr Frank Lewes Schaw Protheroe, was a brother of Mr Protheroe - Beynon, Trewern, and cheerfully took his place with the Non commissioned ranks of the Pembrokeshire corps of the Imperial Yeomanry which went to South Africa.

It looks like they were brother after all.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 12:07 pm

Unfortunately websites do not always bother to check the facts let alone pride themselves on accurate listings.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 3:30 pm

Hi Julian 

So are you saying he wasn't in the Zulu War, or more evidence needed.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 4:48 pm

“Eddie”,

There is NO EVIDENCE to support the report that Protheroe served in the Zulu War.  His regular army battalion served in Natal between 1884 until 1887, given he was commissioned in 1885 he would have joined his battalion in South Africa.  

He might have seen some AmaZulu, but that is about it.  

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 5:44 pm

Eddie
I echo John's remark. His presence in Natal at the time of the Zulu Civil War became inflated perhaps into having 'served' against the Zulus, with the obvious inference being the 1879 War.
As John says, there is NO EVIDENCE that he did so serve.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 6:26 pm

Hi Julian /John

I appreciate those comments and wondered myself if there had been a mistake in detail. The statement that appears in the "West Wales memorial Project" above, Specifically states that he served in the Zulu war of 1877- 1879. It is also stated that he was a long serving soldier, 1884 to when he died is hardly long serving.
John's probably right about the amazulu, and the family have been mistake.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 7:44 pm

Eddie,

Inaccurate modern research by other enthusiasts does not amount to fact. Their conclusion was drawn from poor reporting dating from 1901.

Rai has provided you with the information that Protheroe was at school in Bath in August, 1879.

I have provided you with information regarding the date of his commission and the regiment he was commissioned into, and the year he resigned his commission.

He did not, and could not have served in the Zulu War of 1879.

JY

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PostSubject: Re: Memorial at Llanglydwen   Memorial at Llanglydwen EmptyFri Aug 25, 2023 9:10 pm

Hi John 

Obviously not, I had not noticed Rai post stating that earlier. Thank you.
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