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 NNH losses at Isandlwana

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SRB1965

SRB1965


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NNH losses at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptySun Nov 26, 2023 3:53 pm

Hi

I believe the NNH lost approximately 30 officers and men (27?)  at isandlwana.

The unit carried on after Isandlwana with majority of its original troop commanders (except Roberts)

Does anyone have any ready info, as to the losses of each troop or possible later recruiting to replace losses - that may indicate losses.

I've had a quick skim through 'Witnesses' and 'Black Soldier's of the Queen' is my next port of call.

The Edendale Contingent only lost 2 men and reading the accounts left by Hlubi, it would seem that No 4 troop had very few losses.

Vause's troop seemed to suffer a number of casualties and there was the potential 'friendly fire' incident accounting for Roberts death + maybe some of his troop.

I'm trying to work out if any of the NNH were with Shepstone in his stand - I have my doubts.

Did the later NNH still have 5 troops or did it drop to 4 (although there was a 6th troop not at Isandlwana)?

I am confused about Kambulas statement saying the Edendalers lost 70 horses (each trooper having two) by my CSE grade maths that means about 20 troopers had to walk or ride double, at some point....

Thanks a lot 

Simon
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyMon Nov 27, 2023 10:15 am

Pages 11 and 13-14 of England's Sons will give you a detailed summary.

In brief 1 European officer was killed and 5 survived.
30 African troopers were killed, 114 were recorded as surviving, and 123 as fate unknown.

The 114 survivors include:
53 members of No. 5 (Edendale) Troop, N.N.H. (including Sergt. Simeon Kambula, John Zulu Mtinkulu, John Gama, and the wounded Peter Gulu [wounded, gunshot through leg]);
Nyanda and 6 wounded troopers (see BPP, 1878-9, LIII, C2318, p. 15) of Nos. 1-3 (Sikali) Troops;
54 members (see Jenkinson, op. cit., p. 87) of No. 4 (Hlubi) Troop, N.N.H. (including Jabez Molife, Hlubi and his son Isaak Lenega, Solomon and an anonymous trooper). This must include the one or two troopers sent from the Qwabe valley to warn Chelmsford.

Chard's account written at the personal request of Queen Victoria, stated a party of N.N.H. “about 100 in number” arrived at Rorke’s Drift after the battle via the road from Isandhlwana. This must have been the 54 men of No. 4 Troop plus another 45 or so from the Sikali troops.

For more details see England's Sons.
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyMon Nov 27, 2023 10:22 am

Thanks Julian
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyMon Nov 27, 2023 10:41 am

So we have 123 Schrodinger NNH - neither dead nor alive.....🙂
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyMon Nov 27, 2023 12:26 pm

Unrecorded dead or alive cats.
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WeekendWarrior

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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyTue Nov 28, 2023 10:42 pm

Interesting, so potentially there could have been a significant number of Zikhali personnel killed with Shepstone? Somehow didn't pick up the missing NNH
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyWed Nov 29, 2023 5:31 am

Potentially - yes, no and maybe

Presumably it's easy to account for the survivors, the killed - I would assume that they were definitely seen to be killed, by a survivor (rather like how MIA can be 'upgraded' to KIA today) or a body was found (which is unlikey)

But the 'unaccounted' ones - did they just return to their kraals thinking 'damn this for a game of soldiers', or had they not returned by the time of the numbers being recorded.

As JW says, they might just be 'unrecorded' rather than 'unaccounted' for.....and the differences that can be read into that 

Without taking more advantage of JWs good nature, I'm not sure of the date of the above info, not having a copy of England's Sons.

However counter to the 'I'm off' idea (which was attributed to many NNI) - the NNH was armed, uniformed and paid by the Government - had it more of a disciplined nature and sense of unity? The units certainly fought on, during the war under their original officers.

According to Col Snook, in defence of the 24th - too much has been made of the quality of the NNH - who he attributes to be little more than NNI on horses.

It is tempting to think that some of these soldiers ended up with GS - either through choice or more likely leaving it too late to cut through the Zulu or were not in sufficient numbers to put them off attacking.

But as for how many of the 123 unaccounted troopers  ended up with GS is the question and how it can be fitted into your theory.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyWed Nov 29, 2023 9:28 am

The ES info is from the latest update - so 2023.
The quality of the NNH varied from troop to troop, as with all soldiers.
Re those who died with Shepstone and the missing 123.
It is logical to say that most of them would have ridden off straight to their homes and not reported back. But, someone died with Shepstone, and he was a logical rallying point, had accompanied the NNH earlier in the day, and was of a status to have been ordered by Durnford to do what he could to defend the rear which they both knew was being approached by the right horn. If Durnford could hold the tip of the left then he needed someone reliable to hold the tip of the right if anyone left in the camp was to get out. If Roberts was killed by friendly fire then someone had to take control of his troop - there was no-one else but Shepstone left. It is logical that Shepstone would have used them to defend the nek.
As Frank would say, a lot of ifs.
Nevertheless, Shepstone died on the west side of the nek. He didn't die alone. There are large numbers of NNH (and NNC) unaccounted for. It's tempting to make 2+2=4.
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WeekendWarrior

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PostSubject: Re: NNH losses at Isandlwana   NNH losses at Isandlwana EmptyWed Nov 29, 2023 12:49 pm

I've done quite a bit of digging into the role of the Zikhali. Curiously, it sounds almost as if they fragmented upon retiring off Mkwene.

Lieut. Raw, Lieut. Vause, Nyanda, James Hamer and James Brickhill all seem to describe entirely different roles.

Raw mentions turning his Troop to face the Zulu Impi and having the 24th in position to fire over his head. Raw then mentions withdrawing for camp for an ammunition resupply only to briefly take up position between an NNC Company and a 24th Company. Nyanda only mentions holding a sluit to the left of the NNC camp.

Brickhill, on the other hand, says he saw the only significant group of Zikhali holding the ground between Isandlwana and the iNyoni before retiring south to take up a firing position ostensibly near where Shepstone was brought down.  

Doesn't really seem consistent or reconcilable, does it? I'd suggest that with Roberts likely killed by fratricide, we have a significant body of the Zikhali Horse left 'floating'. Not really sure what happened with Raw, but his implication about being in low ground and turning his Troop to fire at the Zulus suggest to me may even have been somewhere to the right center around the time Pope etc fell back to the Rocky Ridge. Might even explain how/why Shepstone was seen briefly in the Nyogane by Durnford.

As for Shepstone, I only wish we had more to go on than a handful of references to him being caught up in the swell of fugitives over the saddle and those fleeting references by MacPhail and Brickhill to NNH.
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