WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
How many started? EmptyYesterday at 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
How many started? EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 11:13 am by Julian Whybra

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
How many started? EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
How many started? EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
How many started? EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
How many started? EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
How many started? EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
How many started? EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Philip Price
How many started? EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 6:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997

» What was the distance?
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan

» Mrs Henry Hook
How many started? EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny

» "With 6 good riflemen"
How many started? EmptyMon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» What was G company supposed to do?
How many started? EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William Wylie
How many started? EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young

» South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60th
How many started? EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody

» Weatherleys Border Horse Flag
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
How many started? EmptySun Jan 28, 2024 3:19 pm by Kenny

» Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-Tynte
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg

» How many started?
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am by Julian Whybra

» Firing Line formation
How many started? EmptyMon Jan 22, 2024 2:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Why did Maj. Spalding have to go ?
How many started? EmptyWed Jan 17, 2024 9:40 pm by Stefaan

» Grape-shot at close range.
How many started? EmptyMon Jan 15, 2024 7:42 am by SRB1965

» Books Hlobane & Kambula
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 10:08 am by John Young

» 24th Foot Database for Isandlwana
How many started? EmptySun Jan 07, 2024 11:03 am by SRB1965

» South African medal W.J.E. Bawtree, Natal Mounted Police
How many started? EmptySat Jan 06, 2024 9:22 am by briannorris@sos.co.za

» Private 25B/293 J H Meredith 1/24th Regiment kia iSandlwana
How many started? EmptyFri Jan 05, 2024 10:55 pm by Julian Whybra

» 94th Regiment receive AZW medal but not the Natal Mounted Police
How many started? EmptyWed Jan 03, 2024 2:36 pm by MKalny15

» Command and Control
How many started? EmptyWed Jan 03, 2024 7:46 am by Schlaumeier

» Zulu use of firearms
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 3:40 pm by Stefaan

» A PROPOSED BOOK ABOUT ZULU DAWN
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 10:34 am by marlbrouk1

» New Members Welcome.
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 6:51 am by Schlaumeier

» The Last of the few. Zulu cast. 2024
How many started? EmptyMon Jan 01, 2024 5:12 pm by ADMIN

» George Astell Pardoe Lieutentant, 13th Light Infantry
How many started? EmptySun Dec 31, 2023 6:25 pm by 90th

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
February 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
   1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
26272829   
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
90th
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
SRB1965
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
Stefaan
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
Hobbes
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
John Young
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
luke1997
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
ADMIN
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
General Greene
How many started? Bar_leftHow many started? BarHow many started? Bar_right 
New topics
» About the second invasion
How many started? EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
How many started? EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 15, 2024 4:46 pm by Will M

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 15, 2024 1:24 am by ADMIN

» Philip Price
How many started? EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 1:54 pm by dprice

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
How many started? EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 12:05 pm by Kenny

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
How many started? EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 7:57 pm by Hobbes

» What was G company supposed to do?
How many started? EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 11:01 pm by Hobbes

» What was the distance?
How many started? EmptyTue Jan 30, 2024 7:44 pm by Stefaan

Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 How many started?

Go down 
5 posters
AuthorMessage
Stefaan

Stefaan


Posts : 57
Join date : 2023-09-11
Age : 60
Location : Bruges, Belgium

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: How many started?   How many started? EmptyMon Jan 01, 2024 9:52 pm

Do we have an idea how many men on horseback actually tried to get away via what would later be called Fugitives Drift?
30, 40 or even more?
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10880
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: How many started    How many started? EmptyMon Jan 01, 2024 10:20 pm

Hi Stefaan
Impossible to tell ... My guess would be 200 plus Mounted , many killed along the way by Zulu's , falling into Chasms etc , many washed away in the river. There were 70 or so survivors these all being mounted , so I'd expect 200 Plus is a conservative estimate ? .
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3226
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 7:15 am

Gary,

You seem to be only referring European survivors, what of the Natal Native Horse? I think you should reconsider your assessment.

JY
Back to top Go down
Stefaan

Stefaan


Posts : 57
Join date : 2023-09-11
Age : 60
Location : Bruges, Belgium

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 8:29 am

That's a lot of horsemen 90th (Gary). Wouldn't it have been better then to stay together and charge through the Zulus in front of them?
With Neville and the colours in the middle of the pack. Perhaps more of them would have made it then. Of course you would have
needed an experienced officer in command of such a troop to coordinate such a massive charge.
Back to top Go down
Stefaan

Stefaan


Posts : 57
Join date : 2023-09-11
Age : 60
Location : Bruges, Belgium

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 8:31 am

*I mean Melville of course and not Neville.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3226
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 8:38 am

Stefaan,

I believe that you mean Lieutenant & Adjutant Teignmouth Melvill, 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment.

I personally know of no evidence that supports that Melvill was part of any large group.

JY
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1195
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 8:55 am

Steffan

One thing to consider is that the retreat from Isandlwana was not orgsnised (or at least not the majority of fugitives) - many were civilians

They left the camp at a various times as the opportunity arose or there nerve failed them. Some left in small groups (ie a couple or three at same approximate time), the groups split apart and joined others depending on traffic jams etc.

Also the fugitives trial is not one single track but a wide swathe of land heading in the same direction.

It has been said that some groups of NNH did break-through the Zulus - or rather the Zulus went after easier pickings.

It does seem that Melvill and Coghill were maybe amongst the last to leave camp and the last to attempt to cross the river (but such timings are difficult to determine)...M&C were found near to a couple of other soldiers but I do not believe these were associated with their deaths.

Cheers

Simon

Ps I often feel quite sad for the Fugitives who were killed on the Natal bank.....regardless of if killed by Zulus or maybe Natal Natives......they had done the hard bit....close pursuit, rough terrain, the river....only to fall at the last fence, so to speak....
Back to top Go down
Stefaan

Stefaan


Posts : 57
Join date : 2023-09-11
Age : 60
Location : Bruges, Belgium

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 9:41 am

Indeed John I meant Lieutenant & Adjutant Teignmouth Melvill.
Sometimes I type to fast.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1195
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 9:53 am

John Y is quite prickly about the extra 'e'......he's even more prickly because I am registering the rights to it, so that anyone who employs it has to pay me a fee....I've been fair.....he's got the option to buy the 'u' out of Rorke's Drift....
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10880
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: How many started    How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 2:03 pm

Agreed JY I was basically thinking of Europeans on horseback , many more than my 200 estimate once you add the other mounted personal etc .
Stefaan , it's basically a track , no room at times only single file could be used , and as Simon says Very Happy , there was no organised retreat over good ground , the ground is terrible , many pitfalls for those who wouldn't have known the country into which they were forced to flee into .
90th

PS JY ... Not sure whom gets the better deal ... you with your Melvill ' e ' or Sime with his Rorke's ' u ' !? hahahahaahah
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1195
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 2:08 pm

Gary: you could always buy a share in "Zulus Fahsands of them" so everything someone puts it on FB, you get royalties.....
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10880
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: How many started    How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 2:13 pm

YES Sime !! , I like it , especially how many times it was mentioned in the last couple of days ! , Thank God Christmas & New Year is over for another 12 months , it was driving me crazy all the posts about the 2 movies over the weekend etc . Suspect Suspect Suspect
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3226
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 2:43 pm

Gary,

What two movies would that be?

JY
Back to top Go down
Stefaan

Stefaan


Posts : 57
Join date : 2023-09-11
Age : 60
Location : Bruges, Belgium

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 3:33 pm

Hi Gary, of course I would not have let them charge along Fugitives Drift with 200 or more but
towards the, what was it, left horn (not the one that went behind the Isandlwana mountain) of the Zulu attack.
To take them on with a frontal attack. i don't think the Zulus would form square to oppose such a massive stampede of horses and men.
Of course the 24th on foot would not have been helped very much with such a strategy.
They (the 24th) could have been helped if horses and men after succeeding in passing the Zulus turn back and attack the Zulus from the rear.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1195
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 02, 2024 5:07 pm

As has been mentioned, apart from one or two units of NNH, the escapees didn't leave in organised bands.

One unit of NNH shot their way through the Zulu right horn and escaped but such mounted units were not for charges, apart from spears they had no melee weapons and there was possibly 3000 Zuius.

Ammunition was running low, majority of NNH white officers had become separated from the men (one had been killed)

These men had been driven from the field - of the 5 units of NNH (around 260ish) I think 120 odd didn't even return to duty - just (if not killed) headed for home...."do not pass go, do not collect £200". Only 30ish were confirmed killed.....they had ceased to be effective combat units (apart from a few groups of men - one of which covered the fugitives crossing the river, for a while)

One unit briefly rallied at Rorkes Drift but fled the Zulu advance, after firing a few shots at them.

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3924
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyMon Jan 22, 2024 11:27 pm

I think you need to be careful about terminologies here.
Using terms like 'units' of NNH will lead only to confusion.
There were 5 troops of NNH at Isandhlwana.
A group of "about 100" NNH broke through the right horn - these men came predominantly from 2 troops (Davies and Henderson's troops) and were armed with rifles. Those of Vause's troop who escaped did so en masse. Raw and Roberts's troops did not. There were 114 confirmed known NNH African survivors.
All 92 (possibly 95) European survivors escaped on horseback
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1195
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 5:34 am

Yes of course you are correct, Julian but having wargamed for 40 odd years - sometimes it is hard not slip back into 'old ways'.....
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3924
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

How many started? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How many started?   How many started? EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am

No disrespect was intended. My point was that using 'unit' to mean two different things (Troop and group or crowd) in the same post will confuse newcomers to the site (and I note with pleasure that there are a number of them joined over Xmas).
I should mention that only 30 NNH Africans were later reported as killed; some 123 simply vanished (i.e. were either unrecorded killed or went home never to return).
Back to top Go down
 
How many started?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: