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 Prisoners of war

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Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves

Posts : 747
Join date : 2009-10-18

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PostSubject: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptySat Dec 05, 2009 10:01 pm

Just out of curiosity. Were there Zulu Prisoners of war, if there was where and how were they kept? Or was it like the Zulu’s take no prisoners. I know quite a few Zulu’s were killed after battle’s on the field by the British and the NNC. But just wondered if any were kept for whatever reason.
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Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptySun Dec 06, 2009 9:10 pm

Mr Greaves. The British look after their prisoners well.

“A few Zulu prisoners had been taken by our troops some the day before, others previous to the disaster at Isandhlwana, and these prisoners were put to death in cold blood at Rorke's Drift. It was intended to set them free, and they were told to run for their lives, but they were shot down and killed, within sight and sound of the whole force.

An eye-witness an officer described the affair to the present writer, saying that the men whom he saw killed numbered "not more than seven, nor less than five." He said that he was standing with others in the camp, and hearing shots close behind him, he turned, and saw the prisoners in question in the act of falling beneath the shots and stabs of a party of our men from The latter indeed, were men belonging to the Native Contingent,”


Source: History of the Zulu war and its origin;"
S.D

P.S Chief Cetewayo of course was taken prisoner.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptySun Dec 06, 2009 9:32 pm

Quote :
others previous to the disaster at Isandhlwana
You need to re-check. Unless this is more fiction.?? 😕
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sas1

sas1

Posts : 629
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 42

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptySun Dec 06, 2009 10:02 pm

Quote :
An eye-witness an officer described the affair to the present writer

Would anyone know who the eyewitness was.

sas1
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John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptySun Dec 06, 2009 10:25 pm

I read about the hanging for Zulu Spys at Rorkes Drift but i have never heard of this, Any other reference to this or is it just the one account.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10236
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: prisoners of war.   Prisoners of war EmptySun Dec 06, 2009 10:47 pm

hi john.
There are many mentions of zulus being hanged at R.D. after the battle , but it may only have been one or two.
I think Harford mentions it in his journal , and possibly CLR SGT Bourne in his narrative in '" RORKES DRIFT BY
THOSE WHO WERE THERE.
cheers 90th.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7703
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 7:20 am

Its also mentioned by Smith Dorien as he built the rein stretcher on which the hangings took place. Having some trouble locating any reference to prisoners of war taken before Isandlawana/ rorkes drift. There was only one engagement and that was Sihayos Kraal.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7703
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 11:35 am

The only reference I can locate is a letter from Chelmsford to Bartle Frere, Jan12th 1879 in which he delivers a report on the fight at Sihayos Kraal he mentions two wounded prisoners in the hospital at RD that he intends to let go when well to "tell their friends how the British make war." I assume these are the two that were killed during the fight for the hospital.
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 8:50 pm

Came across this.

More Victoria Crosses (11) were awarded to the troops at Rorke's Drift than at any other single battle by the British army.

But that image of valour and nobility in the Anglo-Zulu war of 1879 could now turn to shame. Documents have been uncovered which show that Rorke's Drift was the scene of an atrocity - a war crime, in today's language -, which Britain covered up.

In the hours after the battle senior officers and enlisted men of a force sent to relieve the garrison are said to have killed hundreds of wounded Zulu prisoners. Some were bayoneted, some hanged and others buried alive in mass graves.

More Zulus are estimated to have died in this way than in combat, but the executions were hushed up to preserve Rorke's Drift's image as a bloody but clean fight between two forces, which saluted the other's courage.

Damning testimonies from British soldiers are published in a new book, Zulu Victory, written by two retired British officers, Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill, and published in Britain by Greenhill.

The letters and manuscripts, stored and forgotten in British and South African museums and archives, show that the British had no mercy for captured opponents after the Zulus set fire to the garrison's hospital during the battle, then burst in and speared the patients.

"Altogether we buried 375 dead Zulus, and some wounded were thrown in the grave," wrote one trooper, William James Clarke. "Seeing the manner in which our wounded had been mutilated after being dragged from the hospital we were very bitter and did not spare wounded Zulus."

Horace Smith-Dorrien, a lieutenant who later became a general, wrote that a frame to dry ox-hides became an improvised gallows "for hanging Zulus who were supposed to have behaved treacherously" during the battle.

Samuel Pitts, a private, told the newspaper the Western Mail in 1914 that the official enemy death toll was too low. "We reckon we had accounted for 875, but the books will tell you 400 or 500."

In fact, Lieutenant Colonel John North Crealock's private journal discovered in the royal archives at Windsor, reported, "351 dead Zulus were found and 500 wounded". He did not elaborate on the fate of the wounded and the book's authors conclude they were probably all killed, since there was no record of taking prisoners or tending wounded.


A British relief force saw the bodies on its way to Rorke's Drift, and it was this force, which executed the Zulu, wounded, not the garrison's men, who were resting after the battle.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 pm

Littlehand. The events in the initial post were prior to Isandlwana and the Battle of Rorkes Drift. So what were the reason’s for shooting these Zulu’s.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 10:29 pm

I have just been reading the book from where S.D obtained this information, below is the rest of the story. He forgot to add.

It was not the British that carried out the killing it was the Native Contingent, who by all accounts should never have had possession of the prisoners.

"The panic and confusion were fearful," says one of themselves. For The number of prisoners thus killed is said to have been about Twenty. But they were supposed to be under white control, and should not have been able to obtain possession of the prisoners under any circumstances. Scenes like these were not likely to impress the savages with whom we were dealing with our merciful and Christian qualities, nor to improve the chances of European prisoners who might fall into their hands during the campaign.

It was not the British that carried out the killing in was the Native Contingent, who by all accounts should never have had possession of the prisoners.


Sorry forgot to add. This was after the battle of Isandlwana and Rorkes drift.
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Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

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PostSubject: Re: Prisoners of war   Prisoners of war EmptyMon Dec 07, 2009 10:53 pm

Sure its the same book. Idea
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