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Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
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 zulu or zulu dawn-which is better

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garywilson1

garywilson1


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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 1:25 pm

90th , i think it is a misassumption on someones part . Just before they both get killed Bob Hoskins is still calling him as "Pvt Williams" - surely he would be saying "son" if that was the relationship between them and they were both about to die ?
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Zulu Dawn or zulu which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 1:36 pm

Hi Gary.
Agreed . I'm sure there is misassumption . :lol: :lol:
Cheers 90th. Very Happy
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 1:48 pm

Seem to recall the band playing 'Oh goodness gracious me".
Bob Hoskins was far to old to be the other blokes son. :lol:

Cheers
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garywilson1

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 1:52 pm

Springbok ; a mans as old as the woman he feels - or so the saying goes ! (I wonder if that will be deleted :lol: )

Cheers mate (and looking forward to the upcoming Tests Very Happy )

Gary.
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 2:08 pm

I am sure that it is just an assumption that Col Sgt Williams and Pte Williams were Father and Son, and as Gary W says, surely Col Sgt Williams wouldn't be shouting "Private Williams", and then when finding him shout "C'mere", and drag him out, he would be shouting "Where are you Son, or Where are you (Christian name)". If they were supposed to be Father and Son then Pte Williams wouldn't be shouting back "Colour Sergeant", he would surely have said something like "I'm here dad", and they would both have said goodbye and hugged before putting up a good show and then both being killed.

Martin. Salute
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John

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 8:39 pm

Quote :
"I'm here dad"
Excellent :lol:

Were they " Welsh"
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MadDrDevo

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 10:58 pm

garywilson1 wrote:
"Bob Hoskins and his son(real werent they) are great and you see that he really does love his son, even if it means he treats him harder than the others"


I had not realised it was his son ? Learn something every day .


not his son in real life.. i just couldnt remember the characters name.. would have been cool if it was his son
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MadDrDevo

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 11:08 pm

garywilson1 wrote:
I remember they were both called Williams but i can't remember any reference to them being related ? Perhaps someone can point us in the right direction ?

welll given that i have not seen zulu dawn in years i can not tell you WHEN that becomes clear. but i am pretty sure its during the sons death that hoskins makes mention.

there is also the way he treats him, watch in the beginning when he makes him run laps, he looks at him with a certain gleam in his eye.

anyway as i said i have not seen it in years but watching it when i was younger that was the impression i got about the two characters
either way neat stuff
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MadDrDevo

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 13, 2012 11:13 pm

90th wrote:
Hi Gary.
Agreed . I'm sure there is misassumption . :lol: :lol:
Cheers 90th. Very Happy

yeah i might be wrong..
but he treats williams differently then anyone else, they make a point in showing them together a lot. if they were not somehow "related" why not call the private any other name than williams.. unless you want to subscribe to Coopers view that this is a huge welsh conspiracy to undermine britains fighting men.

They make a point of showing RSM WIlliams do things with the younger williams that led me to believe there was a relation

if they were based on real people were they related? dont know but im pretty sure any characterization would be not 100 accurate and again an inaccuracy that makes the moment more telling when they die together.

its also possible that the scene in which they explicitly say there is a relation is laying on the cutting room floor.
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garywilson1

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 14, 2012 5:38 am

CS Bourne has a similar "relationship" with Cole in Zulu , speaking kindly to him when he is afraid .
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90th

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PostSubject: Zulu Dawn or zulu which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 14, 2012 6:03 am

Hi MadDrDevo.
As I said I've seen the film many times and never thought or heard anything that vaguely mentions them being
father and son . As for their names ' Williams ' maybe the scriptwriter liked the name . :lol: :lol: . Basically who knows and who really cares !. Each to his own , if you see it that way I'm not about to try and turn you from your belief . I'm just a little surprised that I never ever picked up the father and son vibe , just goes to show we all view things differantly which is a good thing . Variety is the spice of life so the saying goes . Very Happy
cheers 90th.. Salute
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MadDrDevo

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 14, 2012 5:52 pm

90th wrote:
Hi MadDrDevo.
As I said I've seen the film many times and never thought or heard anything that vaguely mentions them being
father and son . As for their names ' Williams ' maybe the scriptwriter liked the name . :lol: :lol: . Basically who knows and who really cares !. Each to his own , if you see it that way I'm not about to try and turn you from your belief . I'm just a little surprised that I never ever picked up the father and son vibe , just goes to show we all view things differantly which is a good thing . Variety is the spice of life so the saying goes . Very Happy
cheers 90th.. Salute

Film maker.. at least i used to be. so i look at movies in a different light than others and maybe saw something that was not there.

Its little things like the way they interact.. also some have mentioned that they refer to each other by full title and name.

I think its in the opening when he sends the private on the run around the camp with his rifle over his head.. he seemed to pick on the man for a small infraction.. and then they show a bunch of reaction shots of bob hoskins as the kid slapsticks his way through some servants.

it was here that i thought the "Father" was a stickler for regulation. he IS the RSM after all. have you ever seen lives of the bengal lancers? in it the col of the cavalry regiment has his son join the ranks and refuses to show him favoritism. this leads to trouble and the son doesnt think he is loved and gets into trouble requiring gary cooper to come to the rescue.. So i figured that these men were similar, cut from the same type of cloth. gaining some comfort from both the rules and regulations but also family.

again the last names, and yes he could have just been unimaginative when writing, that certainly happens(unobtainium form avatar for example) but i dont think so. there is a reason for it. like i said those were impressions of my viewing of it 17 years ago.. maybe more so take that for what its worth
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MadDrDevo

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 14, 2012 5:55 pm

garywilson1 wrote:
CS Bourne has a similar "relationship" with Cole in Zulu , speaking kindly to him when he is afraid .

yes and no.. he does act as the guiding figure to Cole, that is his job.

its the film making techniques that give me these cues
i need to watch it again.. the whole thing is on youtube.. i just dont think my boss would like it if watched it now
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garywilson1

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PostSubject: Re: zulu or zulu dawn-which is better   zulu or zulu dawn-which is better - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 15, 2012 7:19 am

Exactly - and CS Williams acts in the same way towards Pte Williams - because it is his job . Wait until your boss has gone home and then watch it and prove me wrong .
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