South Africa Medal 1879 (AB J FAWCETT HMS ACTIVE)

Posts : 30 Join date : 2010-04-11 Age : 68 Location : USA

The above medal, now on E-bay, looks suspicious to me. He is not on my copy of the roll for having received the 1879 bar, so suspect that it has been added. Buyer beware.

Cheers,

Pick

Posts : 1095 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London

Hi Pick. I have spent a few hours looking for this chap. Nothing. (You could be right)

Posts : 2594 Join date : 2009-04-24

It look's genuine. How would we know it wasn’t?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/South-Africa-Medal-1879-AB-J-FAWCETT-HMS-ACTIVE_W0QQitemZ110523873763QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item19bbbc79e3

Posts : 30 Join date : 2010-04-11 Age : 68 Location : USA

I am sure the medal is genuine, buyt his name does not show on my copy of the men receiving the 1879 bar. So suspicion is that the bar has been added. In my estimation a no bar medal is 300 pounds, the medal with bar is 600 pounds, and the fact that it is buy it now for 450 makes one really doubtful.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 60 Location : UK

Makes sence. I won't be bidding. Thanks Pick.

Subject: J.FAWCETT Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:59 am

Hi all.
I quickly checked the roll and no sign of Fawcett on the Active sheet. But the roll is not infalable .
Quickly checked the Medal Year Book for 2008.
NO - CLASP , NAVAL MEDAL , value is 280- 300 pd. 1879 Clasp, Naval Medal , 550 - 650 pd.
you can more than likely add 50 quid to the No clasp medal , and 100 or so to the 1879 clasp .
They tend to go up in value each year , the medals awarded for the zulu war .
cheers 90th.

ps Does anyone have the 2010 Medal Year Book , it would be interesting to see what they are valued .

Posts : 3326 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Hi Pick

Welcome to the forum Idea

I have spent many hours looking into this medal over the last few days and my gut tells me that there is something not right with it scratch

To be 100% sure that it is genuine, I wound need to see it for myself and have it measured. I have checked the medal roll for HMS Active and cannot find that name listed, checked all names ending in double T to see if it has been mis-spelt and have found not a thing Idea

I would keep well clear of it.

Pick, I do like the medals Thomas Bunce, glad to see you have paired them up.
Idea

On the subject of suspicious looking medals, see the link below posted up by 90th today.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOUTH-AFRICA-ZULU-MEDAL-1879-HMS-SHAH-S-DAWSON-A-B-/170600555364?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item27b895e364

Whilst this chap's details may be correct according to the roll, the naming on the medal is all wrong. The impressed letters of HMS Shah look good, but the original name has been erased and re-engraved.

Posts : 3326 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

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Hi tasker224

You could be correct, another medal needed to be seen before purchase.

Suspect

Posts : 30 Join date : 2010-04-11 Age : 68 Location : USA

I wouldn't rule it out, difficult only with photos. Often the SHAH is smaller that the man's name, and the large engraved letters are common on the naval awards. My gut says that it's OK, but at 600 pounds already it's overpriced in my opinion.

Pick,
I accept your greater experience in handling these naval medals, obvious from the other thread.
If you think the naming looks correct, that's good enough...we learn something new every day!
Without your words, my alarm bells would be ringing.
Why the difference in lettering between the name of the ship and the recipient? If the naming is original, would I expect to measure exact same diameters with a micrometer across the medal?
Tasker

Posts : 30 Join date : 2010-04-11 Age : 68 Location : USA

With calipers you will get the same distance around the medal, but it is always best to have a "good" medal to compare it to. I don't know why, but SA 1879 medals edge details look "funny" starting with the thickness of the medal seems to vary as you go around the edge. Here is another example:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Posts : 269 Join date : 2010-12-02 Location : Kloof, KZN

I wonder if anyone has the service and discharge record of AB J Fawcett? I have the Queen's South Africa Medal (Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith) awarded to 1st Petty Officer J Fawcett of the Natal Naval Volunteers and I am trying find out more about him. In view of PO Fawcett's rank I have assumed he had previous naval service before joining the NNV, so could AB Fawcett (Zulu War) and PO Fawcett (Boer War) be one and the same man?

I have another QSA to a man who served in the RN at the time of the Zulu War. After leaving the RN he served in two of the irregular units raised for service in the Zulu and Basuto Wars, after which he settled in South Africa. Perhaps Fawcett did the same.

I would be grateful for any information and opinions.

Brett

Thanks for the photos Pick.

Brett, if you are unable to get to Kew to search the archives yourself and let's face it, not many of us can, it is worth getting a professional researcher to get these records for you. They will find records a whole lot quicker than you or I could, and much more besides. They are very good value for money too, once you factor in your own time and travel expenses. Try someone like:

http://www.militaryresearchon.com

Hi all.
I was going to suggest the chap I used to do my research but after seeing the site Tasker posted and reading the fine print at the
bottom of the page , I think it's the same person I used and he was very good . His name is Jonathan Collins .
cheers 90th. Idea

Posts : 3326 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

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Group of Natal Naval Volunteers

Posts : 269 Join date : 2010-12-02 Location : Kloof, KZN

Tasker & 90th
Thank you both for your good advice. Hopefully one day I will be able to give a positive report back about J Fawcett.

1879graves
Although the NNV in the picture look a decidedly seedy lot, they actually performed well in both the 'Defence' and 'Relief' of Ladysmith. They joined the Naval Brigade that was made up of men from HMS Powerful, HMS Terrible and other ships that were docked in Durban. One of the NNV officers, Lieutenant Chiazzari, was awarded the DSO for leading a group of seamen in successfully bridging the Tugela River on two occasions after the Royal Engineers had failed to do so, a feat that the RE has never acknowledged.

Brett

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