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 British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet

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sas1

sas1


Posts : 629
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 43

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyMon Mar 23, 2009 7:47 pm

This is a British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet manufactured from the period of about 1876 to about 1893; various modifications are known. These type bayonets saw service during various British conflicts, most notably the Zulu Wars, including battles at Isandhlwana and the valiant stand at Roarke's Drift in 1879 where under 200 British troops successfully defended against an estimated 4,500 Zulus.
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat May 30, 2009 1:31 pm

Hi sas1
Did you know a lot of the Bayonets were found to be bent after the battle at rorkes drift i read some where that this also happened in the war with Sudan i believe to be a fault in the manufacturing any one else heard of this
billy blanco
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: socket bayonet.   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat May 30, 2009 2:17 pm

hi billy,

currently reading " RORKES DRIFT BY THOSE WHO WERE THERE" , A number of the participants have spoken of the same thing, not sure who said it, but when they were relieved on the 23rd , one of the relievers said there was all manner of equipment laying around, spears ,old guns, BENT BAYONETS, etc etc. these were all gathered up and put in a hole and set fire to !!. where"s the time machine when you need it !!!!.

cheers 90th.
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat May 30, 2009 3:13 pm

I read that one some time ago have you read Great Zulu Commanders By Ian Knight It Covers from the founding of the Zulu By Shaka right up to the last rebellion By Bombata in 1906 it covers most of the king's and indunas
Another good book is Crossing the Buffalo by Adrian Grieves gives a good account of Isandlwana Looking at a map in there the scale shows from Isandlwana to fugatives Drift at around 6 miles
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
Join date : 2009-04-07
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: ian knight reply   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySun May 31, 2009 1:24 pm

hi billy,
no, i haven"t read the zulu commander"s book, have read a similar book by ADRIAN GREAVES called COLONIALS AND ZULUS, It"s part two. part one is about the main british players in the war. also havent read CROSSING THE BUFFALO, I have other books on isandlwana. can you tell me the month when you were at isandlwana,rorkes drift, and what were the weather conditions, did you go to any other zulu war sites?.

cheers 90th.
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyMon Jun 01, 2009 9:45 am

Hi 90th

I went out in October 2003 The weather very hot and cold at night There was not the look of lush green grass as other parts of the year it was all a Yellow Brown in colour but still a wonderful sight.
We also went to where the Prince Imperial Napoleon was slain by the Zulu
not far from the Tshotshozi River after riding out on a scetching mission.
There is a Grave there for him and the Two Troopers who Died along side him on that fateful Day But his Body was actualy taken Back to France.
other locations we visited were the Mangeni fall's where Chelmsford Camped up that day after splitting his forces.
and tthe Valley where the Zulu's were discovered that Morning By the scouting party that is a fantastic view we also went to Helpmakar which now has a Police station there
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: british socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyTue Jun 02, 2009 8:39 am

hi billy.

i will have to really think about getting to sth africa , would be fantastic.
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sas1

sas1


Posts : 629
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 43

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyTue Jun 02, 2009 10:48 pm

I think the continuing stabbing of ox hide shields and human bone would have helped contribute toward the bayonets bending. As I understand it the ox hide was cure to such a state that it was hard to thus any stabbing weapon into it. I don’t recall hearing about bayonets being found bent at Isandlwana. It would have been odds against. if the bad batch of bayonets had just been issued to the defenders at Rorkes Drift.
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: bent bayonets   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyWed Jun 03, 2009 1:55 pm

hi all

have read somewhere the british had trouble ( bending, breaking ) with the bayonet used in the zulu war, before that conflict and after !!. hope someone can shed more light on this subject.

cheers 90th.
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyThu Jun 04, 2009 10:52 am

HI All
Most men at Isandlwana in the 1st Battalion would have had the 17 inch bayonet as the 22inch was issued after they were in Africa most of the 2nd battalion would have had the 22inch issued later
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John

John


Posts : 2558
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Age : 59
Location : UK

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptyFri Jun 05, 2009 10:12 pm

I can’t find anywhere that says there was a problem with the British Bayonets in 1879 or after. Would appreciate if someone else could post a link to confirm there was a problem.
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat Jun 06, 2009 12:40 am

hi john

i will attempt to locate the source of the " bayonet problem '. it may have been mentioned on the RDVC site, or journals of the ANGLO ZULU WAR HISTORICAL SOCIETY, there were problems in the SUDAN engagements, i will return !!!. :lol!:

cheers 90th.
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
Join date : 2009-04-07
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat Jun 06, 2009 4:42 am

hi all.

found thiS in " UNIFORMS AND WEAPONS OF THE ZULU WAR" by CHRISTOPHER WILKINSON- LATHAM.

1876 PATTERN MARTINI-HENRY SOCKET BAYONET.
this new pattern triangular bayonet superseded the 1853 pattern enfield bayonet that had been bushed ( the size of the socket reduced in size ) in 1871 to take the reduced muzzle diameter of the M.H rifle. the blade was 21 1/2 inch long. the scabbard was of leather and had two brass studs on the top mount which located a spring which held the bayonet in the scabbard. the majority of this pattern were of GERMAN MANAFACTURE and figured prominently in the 1885 BAYONET SCANDAL, when it was reported that the bayonets BROKE AND BENT during the 1884 SUDAN CAMPAIGN. after a virulent press campaign various tests were held which one newspaper said " HAS PROVED THAT A LARGE NUMBER OF THEM ARE WORSE THAN WORTHLESS !. out of 600 bayonets of the royal lancashire regt 223 either BENT or BROKE during the test. One newspaper , THE DAILY CHRONICLE, conjected that " possibly isandula " became a massacre because the bayonets ,which must have been the weapons employed by our brave troops in that desperate encounter , were as bad as the bayonets of the first royal lancashire regt have been proved to be. 'it appears that the bayonet also bent when used during the zulu war , as one newspaper stated. " the first time the new bayonet was used was at RORKES DRIFT , and after that fight there was hardly a bayonet that was not BENT DOUBLE .

hope this helps 90th.
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John

John


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British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat Jun 06, 2009 12:12 pm

90th Thanks for that. Like I said I spend hours looking for confirmation now I have it.
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90th

90th


Posts : 10473
Join date : 2009-04-07
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat Jun 06, 2009 12:17 pm

hi john

glad i could help , i was lucky enough to find the article in the fifth book i skimmed through , unfortunatly i have a lot of books and journals , and it can be a long day if i get it wrong !!. but it is a subject i am passionate about.

cheers 90th.
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Lunger




Posts : 5
Join date : 2018-09-15

British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet Empty
PostSubject: Re: British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet   British Pattern 1876 socket bayonet EmptySat Sep 15, 2018 12:45 pm

The shorter bayonet was the 1853 patt brushed to fit MH the longer one was 1876 patt

they were not date stamped until 7/82 NCOS had 56 patt bayonets
Ref Broken ones that's why 1887 patt came in mk 1 2 &3
mk 3 been approved on22/6/88
I have all these above bayonets they all fit onto my MH
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