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Zulu: Lieutenant John Chard:What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead:Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you
 
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24th

24th

Posts : 1849
Join date : 2009-03-25

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PostSubject: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptySun May 16, 2010 4:54 pm

After reading this I’m wondering if Chelmsford was right not to trust the Zulu’s. History talks and it appears the Zulu were very un-trustworthy. This is just one incident, does anyone have any other details relating to the Zulu’s going back on their word. Cetewayo tried many times to talk peace. But who says the same fate wasn’t going to be dished out to those peace talkers.

“On the following day, 6 February, the 70 White men were up before daybreak. As they prepared to leave to return to their camp where their women and children were waiting, a Zulu messenger arrived. He carried with him a message from Dingaan asking that Retief and his men meet one more time inside the Zulu king's enclosure where the two parties would toast their successful negotiations and future friendship. The Whites agreed.

Retief and his men made their way to the Zulu king's inner enclosure. Before they entered the final ring of mud huts and reed walls, they were asked to leave their firearms stacked in a pile outside as a mark of respect to the king: foolishly they agreed, not suspecting that it was all an elaborate trap and that the Zulus had no intention of honouring their word. The treaty between Retief and Dingaan was still in the pouch the former was carrying.

As the White men entered the inner enclosure, the gate was closed behind them. Dingaan greeted the White men, and bid them sit before him. They then drank the crude sorghum beer offered to them, still unsuspecting and full of trust. In the inner enclosure were nearly two thousand Zulus in full combat gear: shields, spears and wooden clubs. Now they had the White men unarmed and outnumbered.

At Dingaan's command they began dancing, shouting and waving their Stone Age weapons in the air. The White men watched and listened. The Blacks then slowly started moving back and forth: each time advancing three steps and retreating two: gradually they crept closer and closer. At the point where they nearly touched the seated White men, Dingaan jumped up and shouted out "Kill the White Wizards!"

Too late the Whites realized the treachery which had been played out upon them: a few jumped up and tried to defend themselves with their small hunting knives, but they were no match for the two thousand heavily armed Zulus. Some of them were strangled to death on the spot by crude ropes made of cut up animal skins: the rest were seized, and along with the bodies of their dead comrades, were dragged outside the royal camp to a hill next to Umgungundlovu, called Hlomo Amabuta, the Hill of Execution.

There the Blacks cruelly executed the remaining Whites, one by one, by clubbing and spearing them to death. Last to be killed was Retief himself, after having been forced to watch his own teenage son be clubbed to death.
Once dead, Retief's heart and liver were cut out of his body and ceremoniously presented to Dingaan as proof that the chief White wizard was dead.”
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

Could they be trusted. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptySun May 16, 2010 5:27 pm

hi
what year did this happen?

What was the Zulus motive for slaughtering the 70 white men?

thanks joe
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

Could they be trusted. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptySun May 16, 2010 5:35 pm

hi, a bit more information about king cetswayo...

Bishop Schreuder (of the Norwegian Missionary Society) described Cetshwayo as "an able man, but for cold, selfish pride, cruelty and untruthfulness, worse than any of his predecessors."

In September 1876 the massacre of a large number of girls (who had married men of their own age instead of men from an older regiment, as ordered by Cetshwayo) provoked a strong protest from the government of Natal.

thanks joe
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90th

90th

Posts : 10058
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptyMon May 17, 2010 1:33 am

hi joe.
The Retief party massacre was only the beginning , after they were put to death , he sent his warriors out
to attack the remaining family members women , children and the few men left at the camp. All were put to death.
Retief party killed 6th Feb 1838 , Family members killed 17th Feb 1838 in what was known as the Bloukrans massacre.
Dingaane was afraid of white encroachment and basically decided to do something about it. Retief"s final visit to Dingaane
was in fact his third !, so you would think they had nothing to fear . hope this helps .
cheers 90th.
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptyMon May 17, 2010 7:19 am

hi 90th

thanks for the extra information, didnt think it happened as early as 1838, that would have been king Cetswayo wouln't it?

Heres some more information, ive just found...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

thanks again joe
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SirDCC

SirDCC

Posts : 96
Join date : 2010-03-28
Location : England

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PostSubject: Re: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptyMon May 17, 2010 11:29 am

Here's an old film showing the incident Idea

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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2583
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptyMon May 17, 2010 7:49 pm

And to make matters worse.

"Francis Owen, whose mission station was situated on a hill overlooking Hlomo Amabuta, witnessed all these events. Despite the tragedy being played out before his eyes, the Christian Owen made no effort to warn Retief's party, encamped as they were only a few hours' ride away. Instead Owen fled to the British trading settlement at Port Natal (Durban) a few days later. "


Maybe he could have prevented what took place.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10058
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptyTue May 18, 2010 7:07 am

hi joe.
Dingaane was the chief at the time , not Cetswayo . Idea .
cheers 90th.
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

Could they be trusted. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Could they be trusted.   Could they be trusted. EmptyTue May 18, 2010 7:20 am

hi 90th,
thanks for the correction, ive just realised what ive done, I mistook Cetswayos date of birth and thought it was the time he was king! :lol!:

thanks joe
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