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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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 Was He in the Zulu War

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rai




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Was He in the Zulu War Empty
PostSubject: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 12:21 pm

Hi All
Need to confirm he was a participant in the Zulu War
I found an obituary in either the London Times or the Irish Times 1945
Death of the Earl of Scarborough, served zulu war second boer war and world war one.
I have found the following on the WWW
Aldred Frederick George Lumley, 10th Earl of Scarborough B.16 Nov 1857- D.4 March 1945, married Lucy Cecillia Gardner one child, Father Richard George Lumley 9th Earl.
Buried at the Family Chapel, Sandbeck Park nr Tickhill, Maltby, Rotherham, South Yorkshire.
In the Army List 1878, he is a Sub-Lt 7th Hussars.
I think his participation was in the later 1884 campaign ????? can anyone help?????

Rai
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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 12:45 pm

Hi Rai

I am unable to find any reference to him taking part in the Anglo-Zulu of 1879.

Major-General Aldred Frederick George Beresford Lumley, 10th Earl of Scarbrough, KG, GBE, KCB, GStJ (16 November 1857 – 4 March 1945) was a British peer and soldier. His first name is sometimes rendered as Alfred, not Aldred.

Lumley was the son of the 9th Earl of Scarbrough and was educated at Eton. He was Lord Lieutenant of the West Riding of Yorkshire from 1892 to 1904 and commanded the 7th Hussars, the Yorkshire Dragoons and the Yorkshire Mounted Brigade during the Boer War in 1900 and afterwards became an aide-de-camp to King Edward VII in 1902. He was Director-General of the Territorial Force until his retirement in 1921.
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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 12:53 pm


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Aldred Frederick George Lumley 10th Earl of Scarbrough. Born 16 November 1857 Tickhill Castle. Died 4 March 1945 Sandbeck.Buried Sandbeck .Married 8 April 1899 Christ Church, Mayfair. Lucy Cecilia Gardner, daughter of Cecil Dunn Gardner.Died 24 September 1931 Sandbeck Park

Rai. He appears to have served in the Boerwar. No reference to Zulu War.

Major-General Aldred Frederick George Beresford Lumley, 10th Earl of Scarbrough, KG, GBE, KCB, GStJ (16 November 1857 – 4 March 1945) was a British peer and soldier. His first name is sometimes rendered as Alfred, not Aldred. Lumley was the son of the 9th Earl of Scarbrough and was educated at Eton. He was Lord Lieutenant of the West Riding of Yorkshire from 1892 to 1904 and commanded the 7th Hussars, the Yorkshire Dragoons and the Yorkshire Mounted Brigade during the Boer War in
1900 and afterwards became an aide-de-camp to King Edward VII in 1902. He was Director-General of the Territorial Force until his retirement in 1921. on 8 April 1899, Scarbrough married [http://www.thepeerage.com/p7536.htm Lucy Cecilia Dunn-Gardner] (d. 24 November 1931), widow of Col. Robert Ashton (d. 1898) [Robert Ashton (1848-1898) was a second cousin of Thomas Gair Ashton, 1st Baron Ashton of Hyde (1855-1933), whose great-grandfather [http://www.thepeerage.com/p2987.htm#i29866 Samuel Ashton] (1742-1812) was his great-grandfather as well.] . His wife brought a stepson and stepdaughter to their marriage, and gave birth to a single daughter Lady Serena Lumley. Lucy was the daughter of Cecil Dunn-Gardner.

The Countess's father was probably Cecil Dunn-Gardner (b. 1827, possibly d. by 1880) [Date of birth listed in [http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/accessions/1995/95returns/95ac12.htm the accessions list of the National Archives] . His library was [http://www.oldandsold.com/articles11/book-prices-7.shtml partly sold] in June 1880; such sales often took place after the death of the collector in question.] , formerly of the 13th light Dragoons. If the identification is correct, he was the third surviving son of the brewer John Margetts (d. 1842) and his bigamous wife Sarah Dunn-Gardner,

Marchioness Townshend, and the younger brother of John Dunn Gardner MP.
Scarbrough's stepdaughter Dorothy Violet Ashton (1885-1956) married in 1914 Lord Gerald Wellesley (1885-1972), who succeeded his nephew as Duke in 1943. The marriage was not a great success, but produced a son and daughter. The son is the present Duke of Wellington (b. 1915), still alive, in his nineties.
Scarbrough's own daughter [http://www.thepeerage.com/p7536.htm#i75354 Lady Serena Lumley] married 1923 the Hon. Robert James, and later refused the marriage proposal of her brother-in-law, by then Duke of Wellington. [For details, see the "Daily Telegraph" obituary of Lady Serena James, nee Lumley] . Her elder daughter Ursula James married David Allan Bethell, 5th Baron Westbury (1922-2001); their son Richard is the present 6th Baron.
Scarbrough was appointed Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire (GBE) shortly before his retirement from the Territorial Force in 1921 for his military service.

References: (Wikipedia




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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 1:04 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 1:13 pm

Hi Rai

Found these photos of him, if you look in the second photo, you will see that he is not wearing a Zulu War Ribbon.

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22nd April 1918: Aldred Beresford, the Earl of Scarborough at an inspection of 'Kilties' of the London Scottish Cadet Corps at their H.Q. at Buckingham Gate, London. (Photo by A. R. Coster/Topical Press Agency/Getty Images)

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22nd April 1918: 'Kilties' of the London Scottish Cadet Corps inspected by Aldred Beresford, the Earl of Scarborough, at their HQ at Buckingham Gate in London. (Photo by A. R. Coster/Topical Press Agency/Getty Images)
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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 2:35 pm

King's College London Liddell Hart Centre for Military Archives
Survey of the Papers of Senior UK Defence Personnel, 1900-1975.

Name: LUMLEY, Aldred Frederick George Beresford, 10th Earl of Scarborough (1857-1945), Major General


Service biography
Lt, 7 Hussars 1876-1883; Commandant, Yorkshire Dragoons Yeomanry 1891-1908; Second in Command, 3 Bn, South African War 1900; Aide-de-camp to the King 1902-1924; Commander, Yorkshire Mounted Bde, Territorial Force 1908-1912; World War I 1914-1918; Director General, Territorial and Volunteer Forces 1917-1921

No mention of the Zulu War. Idea
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 17, 2010 2:53 pm

None of them took part in the Zulu War.

SANDBECK PARK
Near Tickhill, Yorkshire – Earl of SCARBROUGH


The situation of Sandbeck Park is very pleasant, quiet, and retired, and the “tout ensemble” of a thoroughly English character. A large herd of deer roam through a spacious park adorned with stately trees of ancient growth, while on one side is a large lake, and on another the elegant spire of Laughton-en-le-Morthen Church at no great distance comes into view. A handsome private chapel adjoins the house.

•OSBERT DE LUMLEY, of Lumley, in the Bishopric of Durham, was father of
•LIULPH DE LUMLEY, who married Algetha, daughter of Alfred, Earl of Northumberland. Their son was
•UCHTRED DE LUMLEY, from whom descended
•ROGER DE LUMLEY, who married Sybill, daughter and co-heiress of Hugh de Morewic, a feudal Baron of Northumberland, and was succeeded by his son,
•SIR ROBERT DE LUMLEY, who married Lucia, one of the three sisters and co-heiresses of William, Robert, and Thomas de Thweng, Barons Thweng, and his son,
•SIR MARMADUKE DE LUMLEY, Knight, was father of
•ROBERT DE LUMLEY, who died unmarried and a minor in the forty-eighth year of the reign of Edward III, and was accordingly followed by his brother,
•SIR RALPH DE LUMLEY, Knight, Deputy-Governor of Berwick-on-Tweed in the fifteenth year of Richard II, and summoned to Parliament from 1384 to 1399. He however joined the rebellion of Thomas de Holland, Earl of Kent, was attained, and died on the field of battle. He had married Eleanor, daughter of John, Lord Nevil of Raby, and the eldest of his four sons,
•THOMAS DE LUMLEY, who died in 1404, was succeeded by his brother,
•SIR JOHN DE LUMLEY, Lord Lumley, who was actively engaged in the French wars of Henry IV and Henry V, and was slain at the battle of Beaugé, in Anjou, April 13th 1421, and his only son,
•THOMAS DE LUMLEY, obtained from Parliament in 1461 a reversal of the attainder, and was summoned as a Baron from 1461 to 1497, in which year he is supposed to have died. He married Margaret, daughter of Sir James Harrington. Their only son,
•SIR GEORGE LUMLEY, Sheriff of Northumberland in the second year of Edward IV, married Elizabeth, daughter and heiress of Roger Thornton, Esq., the wealthy merchant of Newcastle-on-Tyne. His lordship’s eldest son, THOMAS LUMLEY, predeceasing him, he was succeeded, in the twenty-third year of Henry VII, by his grandson,
•RICHARD LUMLEY, LORD LUMLEY, who married Anne, daughter of Sir John Conyers, K.G. of Hornby Castle, Yorkshire. He died in 1510, and his elder son,
•JOHN LUMLEY, LORD LUMLEY, married Joan, daughter of Henry, Lord Scroope, of Bolton, and left an only son,
•GEORGE LUMLEY, LORD LUMLEY, who being implicated in the treason of Lord Darcy, Sir Thomas Percy, and others, was committed to the Tower, and executed. He married, Jane, co-heiress of Sir Richard Knightley, and his successor,
•JOHN LUMLEY, LORD LUMLEY, was restored in blood by Act of Parliament in 1547. He married twice, but having no children, and the reversal of the attainder not having applied to his father, the Barony expired, but the estates went to his kinsman,
•SIR RICHARD LUMLEY, Knight, who was raised to the Peerage of Ireland, July 12th 1628, as VISCOUNT LUMLEY, of Waterford. He fought under Prince Rupert for Charles I, and married Frances, daughter of Henry Shelley, Esq., of Worminghurst Park, in Sussex, and having had a son, the HONOURABLE JOHN LUMLEY, who died vitâ patris, was succeeded by his grandson,
•RICHARD LUMLEY, second VISCOUNT LUMLEY, who was ennobled in the Peerage of England, May 31st 1681, as BARON LUMLEY, of Lumley Castle, and further, April 10th 1689, VISCOUNT LUMLEY, and, April 15 1690, EARL OF SCARBROUGH. He was in command at the Battle of Sedgemoor, when the unfortunate Duke of Monmouth was defeated. His Lordship married, Frances, only daughter and heiress of Sir Henry Jones, of Aston, Oxfordshire, and dying in 1721, was succeeded by his eldest son,
•RICHARD LUMLEY, second EARL OF SCARBROUGH, K.G., at whose decease, unmarried, in 1740, the honours devolved on his brother,
•THOMAS LUMLEY, third EARL OF SCARBROUGH, K.G., at whose decease, unmarried, in 1740, the honours devolved on his brother,
•THOMAS LUMLEY, third EARL OF SCARBROUGH, who assumed the additional surname of Saunderson, by Act of Parliament, in 1723. He married Frances, daughter of George, Earl of Orkney, and dying in 1752, was succeeded by his eldest son,
•RICHARD LUMLEY, fourth EARL OF SCARBROUGH, Deputy Earl Marshal of England, who married, December 12th 1752, Barbara, sister and heiress of Sir George Savile, Bart., of Rufford Hall, Nottinghamshire, and left, with other issue, and eldest son,
•GEORGE AUGUSTA LUMLEY, fifth EARL OF SCARBROUGH, born September 22nd 1753, who dying unmarried, September 5th 1807, the succession devolved on his brother,
•RICHARD LUMLEY, sixth EARL OF SCARBROUGH, born April 16th, 1757, who married, May 25th 1787, Harriett, daughter of Henry, fifth Lord Middleton, and he also dying without children, was succeeded by his next brother,
•THE REV. JOHN LUMLEY, seventh EARL OF SCARBROUGH, Prebendary of York, born in 1761. He assumed, under the will of his maternal uncle, the surname of Savile, and married, in 1785, Anna Maria, daughter of Julian Herring, Esq., and left at his death, February 25th 1835, with other children,
•JOHN LUMLEY, eighth EARL OF SCARBROUGH, Lord Lieutenant and Custos Rotulorum of Nottinghamshire, born July 18th 1788, who died unmarried October 29th 1856, when the inheritance devolved on his cousin (grandnephew of the fourth Earl),
•RICHARD GEORGE LUMLEY, ninth EARL OF SCARBROUGH, born May 7th 1813, married October 8th 1846, to Mary Adeliza, second daughter of Andrew Robert Drummond, Esq., and had several children. He died December 5th 1884, and was succeeded by his second and surviving son,
•ALDRED FREDERICK GEORGE BERESFORD LUMLEY, tenth EARL OF SCARBROUGH, born November 16th 1857.
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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySat Jul 23, 2022 8:19 pm

Did Sgt Edwin Norris no. 1816 of the 13th of Foot (1st Somersetshire Regiment ) serve actively in the A-Z War? Can anyone obtain his service record for me? Thank you kindly.
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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptySun Jul 24, 2022 2:28 pm

Hi Brian
I can't find an Edwin Norris in the 1/13th in the AZW medal rolls.
Just a hint it might be worthwhile opening a new thread for this chap with his name in the title and you may get more interest. Salute
Kate
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rai




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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptyThu Nov 17, 2022 8:03 am

Hi All,
Edwin Norris is not on the 1/13th medal roll for the Zulu War, in 1871 he was a Private in the 1/13th stationed in Gibraltar.
Rai Keynshamlighthorse.
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PostSubject: Re: Was He in the Zulu War   Was He in the Zulu War EmptyThu Nov 17, 2022 9:02 pm

The video covering the photo's posted above of General Lumley inspecting cadets can be found on YouTube

I don't know how credible Wikipedia is but I was directed from Peerage.com to it, and it lists the following:

Alfred Frederick George Lumley was Gazetted to the 7th Hussars in 1877. He initially served six years until 1883, and saw service in the Anglo Zulu war, 1st & 2nd Boer wars. He later served 1892 - 1921.
It lists his honours as follows:
Order of the Garter (KG)
Order of the British Empire (GBE)
Order of the Bath (KCB)
Order of St John (GCSTJ)
S A Medal 1879 with clasp
Queens S A Medal
Service medal of Order of St John
Territorial Decoration (For long Service) (TD)

He spent six years in between service traveling the world and was with the explorer Frank Linsly James when he was killed by an elephant in 1890, in Gabon.
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PostSubject: Add text   Was He in the Zulu War EmptyThu Nov 17, 2022 9:31 pm

Just a point on the above.

The Maj General Lumley married the widow of Colonial Robert Ashton, died 1898? Lucy Cecilia Gardner.

He had a daughter, Lady Serena Lumley.
He also had a illegitimate son, George Frederick Lumley. George 's mother, unnamed, 22years of age, was paid to migrate to Australia.
George married Elizabeth Jane McDonald in 1899 at Redfern, Sydney, NSW, Australia. They had three children:
Dr George Frederick Lumley
Ruth May Lumley - Shepherd
Elsie Florence Lumley - Smith
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