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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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 The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.

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24th
1879-2009
Chard1879
old historian2
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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 10:13 pm

The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
I'm sure members will state their views on this.
Photo By Johann.
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old historian2

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 10:23 pm

We may as well get use to it. It not going to stop. Its just beat’s me why they do it. Surly they could find something more entertaining to occupy their time.

How about Russian roulette.
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Chard1879

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 10:54 pm

Echo that Old H. Idea
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1879-2009

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySat Aug 07, 2010 9:44 am

Hi - They do it as they think there is items of value buried there. Dynamited, I believe. Trying to obtain relics for collectors. I have been to South Africa on the Anglo Zulu war tour and visited this grave.
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24th

24th


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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySat Aug 07, 2010 10:38 am

Hi 1879-2009. Are the remains buried at an adequate depth? I think the recommendation is 6 foot but not sure if this would have been the case, when burying the dead during the Zulu War.

I'm taking into account the remains that kept surfacing at Isandlwana. Were the dead buried in their uniforms, again I’m just thinking along the lines of regimental buttons ECT. Thinking back to the Button that was found with the remains last year.
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Umbiki

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySat Aug 07, 2010 11:42 am

Well, some say it is relic hunters and some say muti collectors - perhaps both - who undertake this dreadful business. If the latter, then I would imagine it is locals, if the former then it is probably people paying the locals - or others - to see what relics they can find, which is doubly reprehensible in my book.

When I was last at that site in 2006, the cross was lying flat and quite overgrown with grass ( see photos 4 & 5 at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ). 'Twas still a sorry sight (and a marginal improvement to how I had seen it before) but after seeing the latest photo above I can't help thinking that if this sort of thing is going to keep happening, perhaps it's best to let the grass and scrub grow over so that in years to come it is hidden by nature and perhaps then they can both just rest in peace?

All very sad. But let's not kid ourselves that desecration is solely a South African problem - it happens everywhere to a greater or lesser extent.

U

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old historian2

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySat Aug 07, 2010 12:05 pm

Umbiki. 100% agree with you.

Quote :
"it's best to let the grass and scrub grow over so that in years to come it is hidden by nature and perhaps then they can both just rest in peace?"

Hiowever I still maintained the remains should be brought back to England. Re-Buried will full Military Honours. Idea (Not looking for an argument.....
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Umbiki

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySat Aug 07, 2010 12:56 pm

oh2

No arguments from me either - but bearing in mind Campbell's widow, Katherine, visited, prayed and raised a memorial cross on the spot only a year after the event - no mean feat in 1880 - whatever the case for Lloyd, I do think Campbell should be left where he is. When you consider the lengths that woman went to ........ oh dear, the desecration really does make you want to weep ......

U
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Dave

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySat Aug 07, 2010 8:24 pm

I'm in Old H's Camp with this. Permission should be sought, from living relatives, and if they wish the remains should exhumed and brought back to England. Reburied in a Military Cemetery where they can rest in peace. (Finally) Idea
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1879-2009

1879-2009


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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 10:55 am

The remains of Campell & Lloyd are no longer buried there.
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Dave

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptySun Aug 08, 2010 8:38 pm

1879-2009 Can you elaborate? On this.
Quote :
The remains of Campell & Lloyd are no longer buried there.
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Neil Aspinshaw

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptyMon Aug 09, 2010 8:16 am

The Grave of Campbell and LLoyd is concreted over, it has been since around 2007., the cross is now fixed into the concrete.

Very difficult to find in the grass now.

The Grave of Pete Uys, on the nek atht ebotton of the devils pass has been dug up, it was a hole in 2008, and had been infilled thois year.
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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptyMon Aug 09, 2010 11:35 am

Neil! Look at the photo at the start of the discussion.... this is what it looks like now! I was there 10 days ago!
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Umbiki

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The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd.   The vandalized grave/memorial of Campbell and Lloyd. EmptyMon Aug 09, 2010 11:45 am

Neil

Yes, the Uys site was in a very poor state in 2006 - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - although it is (was) a memorial rather than a grave; not that that makes things much better. The remains (bones) of Piet Uys were collected from the nek by family members in July 1879 and buried on his farm but subsequently removed and re-interred at Utrecht in 1988.

Jus as a matter of interest, the Uys entry in the Greaves/Knight, " Who's Who in the Zulu War 1879 Volume II Colonials and Zulus " concludes that in recent times such damage is, " in deference to a widespread belief that such monuments mark the site of treasure buried by Europeans in their march across Zululand. "

U
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