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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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| | Hlazakazi Heights. | |
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sas1
![sas1](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/7-62.jpg)
Posts : 627 Join date : 2009-01-20 Age : 46
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Hlazakazi Heights. Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:12 am | |
| Major Dartnell Set-up a temporary camp at a place known as "Hlazakazi Heights" Doe's anyone have a photo of this area, as is supposed to look down into a valley. Would this have been the valley where the Zulu's laid up, before attacking Isandlwana.
sas1. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:21 am | |
| Good morning. I have sent Admin a photo of the bivouac site on the slopes of the Hlazakazi. The area of Maj Dartnell's skirmish is about 3 to 4 km further south, in the vicinity of the Phindo (along the road from Fort Louis to Qudeni). I have a photo of the site in another file and will post in during the course of the morning. Regards, Ken |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ADMIN
![ADMIN](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1-44.jpg)
Posts : 4354 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 65 Location : KENT
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:47 pm | |
| [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Photo of the scene of Maj Dartnell's skirmish [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Maj John Dartnell’s bivouac site on the slopes of the Hlazakazi. Photo's Supplied By Ken Gillings. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:15 pm | |
| By the way, Dartnell's bivouac was situated on the top of the ridge shown in the photo. The relevance of the scene of the fight on the Phindo was that the valley in the distance is the headwaters of the Nsuze River, which is below the isikala semBomvo - where the Zulu army was expected to advance on the camp at Isandlwana. The isikala (ridge) can be seen in the distance; it is situated slightly west of iThala mountain (which is where some people claim Piet & Dirkie Uys were killed in 1838 (which is unlikely - it was closer to Mgungundlovu) and of course where Gen Louis Botha attacked the British garrison on the 25th September 1901. But that's another story... |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | sas1
![sas1](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/7-62.jpg)
Posts : 627 Join date : 2009-01-20 Age : 46
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:56 pm | |
| Thanks Ken.
Is there any details on the skirmish Maj Dartnell's force had with the Zulu's in this area. Also were Zulu's seen in this valley..
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | impi
![impi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/153-96.jpg)
Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:33 pm | |
| "Magogo" Heights is this also know as "Hlazakazi Heights" are they the same...
"At dawn on the 21st of January Major John Dartnell led a party of about 150 men on a reconnaissance mission, some 16km to the south-east in the area of the Hlazakazi Hill. Commandant Rupert Lonsdale simultaneously led 1,600 men of the Natal Native Contingent in the direction of the Malakatha Mountain. During these movements some Zulus were observed on the Magogo Heights. After several skirmishes, Dartnell sent two men back to Isandlwana to report to Chelmsford, and inform him that his party would spend the night on the slopes of Hlakazi." |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:29 am | |
| The skirmishing took place in the foreground of the photograph (known as the Phindo, in answer to the post by 'impi'). The area of the skirmish is probably about 3 km along the slopes of the Phindo. The whole area, stretching from the Silutshana in the east, south-westwards across the Magogo to the Phindo range is approximately 8 to 10 km in extent, before it links up with the Qudeni range (which then drops into the uThukela / Tugela River valley near Middledrift below Kranskop). To put the area of operations into perspective, Lord Chelmsford had breakfast in the valley between the Silutshana and the Magogo, then disappeared for about 2 1/2 hours between the Magogo and the Phindo and then reappeared in the Mangeni area, which is south of the photograph showing Maj Dartnell's bivouac on the slopes of the Hlazakazi, which is about 6 km from the area of the skirmish on the Phindo. These distances are from memory; I'll measure them more accurately when I visit the site again. It is clearly visible on Google Earth. Regards, Ken |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Chard1879
![Chard1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/107-47.jpg)
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:38 pm | |
| Ken. How far would is Hlazakazi from Isandlwana (Roughly)
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:59 pm | |
| According to my odometer, 24 km.
Regards, Ken |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Dave
![Dave](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1-55.gif)
Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:48 pm | |
| Just Out of curiosity. Did Major Dartnell ever give an account of his feelings with regards to the disaster at Isandlwana? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Chard1879
![Chard1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/107-47.jpg)
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:13 am | |
| I can't help wondering why the Zulu's did not attack Dartnells force. Or was this part of the bigger paln to drawn the troops away from Isandlwana. Dartnell & Lonsdale’s Bivouac Position [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Chelmsford’s March and Movements at Mangeni [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Ken Gillings
Posts : 205 Join date : 2009-10-20 Age : 76 Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:51 pm | |
| In my opinion, the skirmish on the Phindo formed part of Chief Ntshingwayo kaMahole Khoza's decoy movement, headed by Chief Matshana kaMondisa Sithole (who lived in the Mangeni area, of course), but modern writers have indicated that I'm imagining things... One of his descendants - who lives above the waterfall - agrees with my contention. It is very difficult to speculate what might have happened, but the fact that the main Zulu bivouac was in the Ngwebeni River valley - a considerable distance from Mangeni and further to the north-east - indicates that Isandlwana was the target. Regards, Ken |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:58 pm | |
| - Quote :
- but modern writers have indicated that I'm imagining things
Ken. Never mind what they think. Your knowledge on this subject, is well respected on this forum by every member. ![Idea](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_idea.png) I always look forward to your replies. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | impi
![impi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/153-96.jpg)
Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44
![Hlazakazi Heights. Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Hlazakazi Heights. Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:39 pm | |
| Echo Littlehand... |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Hlazakazi Heights. | |
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