WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Zulu Film Quote Lieutenant Bromhead :If 1200 men couldn't hold a defensive position this morning, what chance have we with 100?
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Sergeant 1257 James Perketh 80th Regiment
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyToday at 1:58 am by 90th

» Take out the Officers
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyToday at 1:02 am by 90th

» 3rd Battn., Grenadier Guards, 1884
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 8:01 pm by John Young

» Lieut. Walsh and the Siphezi patrol of the 21st January
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 7:29 pm by Tig Van Milcroft

» Native of Tonypandy
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 5:45 pm by Eddie

» Engineer G Aborn HMS Orontes
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:40 pm by gardner1879

» Colour Sergeant 1681 William McLatter 2/3rd Regiment
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:34 pm by gardner1879

» General Richard Harrison Royal Engineers
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:31 pm by gardner1879

» W H Field bandsman
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:28 pm by gardner1879

» Private Lloyd 17th Lancers
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:26 pm by gardner1879

» Photograph of Archibald B. Milne, R.N.
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:23 pm by gardner1879

» H M Stanley and George Henty
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:21 pm by gardner1879

» Thomas Hallam drunk in court
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:18 pm by gardner1879

» Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:15 pm by gardner1879

» Lieutenant E C Martin 87th Regiment
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:12 pm by gardner1879

» Commandant Schermbrucker
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:07 pm by gardner1879

» John Cook and his kidney problem
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 3:02 pm by gardner1879

» Robert Elliott stabbed his wife
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:59 pm by gardner1879

» Lieutenant- General Sir Charles Mansfield Clarke.
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:57 pm by gardner1879

» John Kelly
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:55 pm by gardner1879

» The Drunken "Draft" at Howick and the Mounted Infantry
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:52 pm by gardner1879

» Acting Gunner J Mitchell HMS Active
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:46 pm by gardner1879

» Sergeant Major 1897 David Allan Strachan, 99th Regiment
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:44 pm by gardner1879

» Major A. H. Tylden-Pattenson, East Kent Regiment
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:39 pm by gardner1879

» W B Scott 91st Regiment?
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:37 pm by gardner1879

» John Ford Webster in court
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:33 pm by gardner1879

» Frederick James Savery
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:29 pm by gardner1879

» Private Pyne the watchmaker
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:26 pm by gardner1879

» Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:21 pm by gardner1879

» Lieutenant Ralph L Payne 1/13th Regiment
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:19 pm by gardner1879

» Zulu War veteran avoids imprisonment in North London
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:15 pm by gardner1879

» C o o k e , T. A. (Maj.-Gen. ret. pay)
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:13 pm by gardner1879

» ALLEYNE, Maj.-Gen. Sir James, K.C.B
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:10 pm by gardner1879

» Butler, Lieutenant-General Sir William Francis Butler, KCB
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:07 pm by gardner1879

» Lt A C Worlledge
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyYesterday at 2:06 pm by gardner1879

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
The Death of the Prince Imperial Zulu War 1879
Top posters
90th
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
littlehand
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
ADMIN
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
1879graves
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
rusteze
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
John Young
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
gardner1879
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
gardner1879
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
90th
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Eddie
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Kenny
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
John Young
Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_leftDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 BarDurnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Durnford was he capable.5
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
2022 Durnford 24th zulu Franklin smith George martini Woolfryes taylor james Prince harford Roll horse Russell brown Natal Mounted spalding Jones john Police henry drift Isandlwana
 

 Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford

Go down 
+25
John Young
kwajimu1879
ymob
6pdr
garywilson1
Ray63
Dave
impi
Chard1879
Drummer Boy 14
barry
tasker224
Frank Allewell
Mr M. Cooper
Ulundi
durnfordthescapegoat
90th
sas1
littlehand
John
ADMIN
old historian2
24th
Saul David 1879
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
29 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
AuthorMessage
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 10:26 pm

Deleted, unnecessary reply.

Impi, best to ignore those type of comments.
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN


Posts : 4304
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 63
Location : KENT

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 10:47 pm

Any member, that takes this discussion off topic, will be excluded from posting. It's a good debate don't ruin it.
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 10:54 pm

impi wrote:
Do we know where Pulleine, Gardener and Brickhill was, when Shepstone came in to ask for assistance. They're could not have been near the command tent, because Brickhill say Pulleine and Gardener went away together, after which Brickhill went to the camp to look for a weapon, on arriving say's the whole Battle array was in poistion. I can't quite see how Pulleine had time to give direction to the Compaines to take-up position.

Brickhill might have been remembering the soldiers standing in front of the camp when he arrived because they mustered on the parade ground twice. When Durnford arrived they were in front of the camp from the first time Pulleine called them out. Then Durnford suggested they be stood down to eat. Then Shepstone came in and they were paraded a second time.

Doesn't it make sense that somebody coming in from a reconnaissance with a report of masses of Zulu troops might have provoked somebody to blow the column alert? Pulleine and Gardner, according to one witness then repaired inside the tent to work on the message to be sent to Chelmsford. I have no idea how you view the significance of Brickhill looking for a gun, but it was probably because he saw a whole lot of Zulu headed his way.
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 11:00 pm

6pdr wrote:
I have no idea how you view the significance of Brickhill looking for a gun,

I would assume,as he wanted to join in the battle, he would need a weapon! He didn't have one so went to the camp to find one.!!
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 11:08 pm

Impi, Pulleine was in the camp of the 1st/24th inside his tent, when Stepstone arrived. Gardener arrived around the same time. With reference to looking for a weapon, I think h is referring to the same camp. Unable to find one he moved himself to a better postion infront of the column office.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 11:32 pm

Chard1879 wrote:
I would assume,as he wanted to join in the battle, he would need a weapon! He didn't have one so went to the camp to find one.!!

So do I take this to mean Chard that you do not regard HQ as part of the camp? I'm confused. Where exactly was Brickhill when he was looking for a rifle?
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 7:05 am

impi/chard
Id pretty much agree there. Pulleine and Brickhill both had their quarters with the 1/24th. Brickhill sharing with QM Pullen. Its debatable if Pulleine would have transferred across to the HQ tent or not. Personal view point is that most of the early morning activity would have taken place around the 1/24th camp. Later moving the seat of action across to the HQ area for a more commanding view point.
Nothing really to base that on just a gut feel.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 7:17 am

springbok9 wrote:
impi/chard
Id pretty much agree there. Pulleine and Brickhill both had their quarters with the 1/24th. Brickhill sharing with QM Pullen. Its debatable if Pulleine would have transferred across to the HQ tent or not. Personal view point is that most of the early morning activity would have taken place around the 1/24th camp. Later moving the seat of action across to the HQ area for a more commanding view point.
Nothing really to base that on just a gut feel.

Would their location at Pulleine's tent or the HQ tent impact whether the troops were standing in front of the camp at the time Gardner and Shepstone approached the Colonel?
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 7:50 am

It's the time spand I'm interested in, some of the companies were a quater of a mile from the the camp in formation. Were they send from the camp prior to Shepstone and Gardener arriving or did Pulleine order the movement after he left Brickhill.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:12 am

That quarter of a mile is misleading. The parade area was in front of the 2/24th probably 500 yrds from the 1/24th HQ and maybe 300 from the 2/24th and 400 or so from the HQ. But not in the middle of nowhere, right in front of the battalion guard tents.
Its debatable when or even if Pulleine moved his HQ across to the Regimental HQ. I would believe he did but late morning, He and Durnford had breakfast together with his officers, that was around 11 oclock and I would guess that would have been at his own mess facility, just underneath the Koppie.

All guess work though.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
sas1

sas1


Posts : 629
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 44

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:15 am

I'm actually learning something.. Good discussion. I can see Frank , becoming a well known name, when it come to the Battle Of Isandlwana.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:16 am

Sorry missed the last part of your question. The Companies were put on stand to during breakfast service, around 8 oclock. That's about the time Durnford was leaving RD, and 2 1/2 to 3 hours before Shepstone and Gardner arrived. When Durnford arrived he requested they be stood down. They were and called back to parade later.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:18 am

Enthusiastic amateur SAS. No more than that. The experts are people like Ken Gillings and Ian Knight.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:26 am

SAS 1
I see the beauty of this forum as being able to share information, if I can do that then so be it. These discusions are brilliant because seemingly small questions do require a bit of research and that forces us into a bit of reading and searching.
Personal opinions are everything with this bloody battle, with such little information they are important and to be able to share those is an honour, to be able to debate them even more so.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 4:16 pm

springbok9 wrote:
Enthusiastic amateur SAS. No more than that. The experts are people like Ken Gillings and Ian Knight.

That said, you are doing a lot of well grounded original thinking that makes everybody revisit their assumptions. If you wrote one of those things old fogey's read -- a book -- I think you could make a real name for yourself young man.
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN


Posts : 4304
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 63
Location : KENT

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 4:41 pm

" Young "  Rolling Eyes 
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 4:50 pm

Admin wrote:
" Young "  Rolling Eyes 

Well...it's all relative. Compared to Drummerboy16/17...maybe not so much.
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 6:46 pm

Is it possible that the Company commanders took themselfs off to the various locations on the Battlefield. Do we actually have a rough idea of the time, they were all in place on the field?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 7:24 pm

impi when you say company
commanders, who do you mean?.
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 7:43 pm

Not Pulleine or Durnford, Younghusband, Pope, ect.
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 8:05 pm

springbok9 wrote:
I had two indications
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Looking at the Map posted by Springbok, it's show's the camp of the 1st/24th. Pulleine is indicated on map. We know he left there at some stage after his conversation with Gardener' Shepstone, and Brickhill.
He obvisouly went to the from of the camp HQ, The map indicate the line of the British troops, further out is another line which shows " The British Last Positions"
Who ordered the men to that last position?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:32 pm

impi the battle developed organically!.
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:39 pm

Doesn't really answer the question? As to who placed the men at the last positions
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 9:46 pm

impi wrote:
Doesn't really answer the question?  As to who placed the men at the last positions

Hey, I have an idea impi.  Why don't you articulate your theory of the battle so we understand where these questions are coming from?  That way we can be of better service to you?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 10:01 pm

Sorry impi, i was'nt being facetious.
would it help if i said the Zulu did.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 10:11 pm

xhosa2000 wrote:
Sorry impi, i was'nt being facetious.

I wasn't either. I'm simply trying to understand what the map covneys to him? The possibilities are...Durnford, Pulleine, the company officers or (indirectly) the Zulu. Possibly impi has another idea? I don't know. I am trying to understand?
Back to top Go down
Ulundi

Ulundi


Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-05-05

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 10:55 pm

Isn't the question simple enough. What officer placed the men at the line deplicting the Last British position. Away from the camp. Or did the companies move to that postion on their own?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 11:21 pm

Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 11:27 pm

sorry impi,ulundi, still dont get what you mean, are
you talking about Pulleine, Durnford, Melvill ( before
he got off of course ) or do you believe they fell
into line naturally as the Zulu threat increased?.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 11:34 pm

Ulundi wrote:
Isn't the question simple enough.

Well, now that xhosa has provided that footage it is. Obviously it was Denholm Elliot...
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptyFri Mar 21, 2014 11:50 pm

6pdr your a bad man;). the footage simply
demonstrates that things can go wrong,
right back to impi's question..
Back to top Go down
Ulundi

Ulundi


Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-05-05

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 12:08 am

xhosa2000 wrote:
sorry impi,ulundi, still dont get what you mean, are
you talking about Pulleine, Durnford, Melvill ( before
he got off of course ) or do you believe they fell
into line naturally as the Zulu threat increased?.

I expect Springbok, will be able to give a satisfactory reply!
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 12:12 am

xhosa2000 wrote:
...the footage simply
demonstrates that things can go wrong,
right back to impi's question..

So, you STILL won't answer the question? Whose the bad man now?

Here's your chance to make up for it. I have an inquiry (which you probably won't* answer) about the map. There are dotted lines (with arrows) emerging from each tent block and they meet/converge on the old trader's road northwest of the camp.

What is that telling us? At first I thought it might be where they mustered but that's obviously not the case...especially the second time. Is it just an indication they traveled that road before pitching the camp?

-6pdr

*Or maybe you can't. HA!
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 12:31 am

So, you STILL won't answer the question? Whose the bad man now?

*Or maybe you can't. HA!...

excuse me but how old are you? you think to
provoke me into doing your thinking for you by
the clumsy whatever that is above, err no!
yes 6pdr think..movement.



Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 2:26 am

AH!  So you're saying that the map was indicating a future intention to proceed up the road...  Thank you!  I really had no clue because that's NOT what Chelmsford had in mind next for the column when he sent Gardner to summon it along. (So my little stratagem worked a treat.)  Very Happy 

As for your query...somewhere between DB16 and Springbok.  Why do you ask?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 2:47 am

AH! So you're saying that the map was indicating a future intention to proceed up the road...

What!..they are all your words..that you are trying to put in my
mouth,your trying to project your whatever on me!whats packing
up the camp to do with the price of fish?. spell it out! what are
you going on about...the age crack in context was a fair point.
think about it!.
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 3:01 am

Thinking...thinking...thinking... scratch   Nope. I got bupkis.

But while we are on and off the topic XHOSA, are you implying that Chelmsford was responsible for placing the companies there because he made Pulleine pull men from the line companies to pack up the camp for him?  I'm not sure. But I think we should add Chelmsford to the list of possibilities. Or are you going to stick with "the Zulus done it," scape-goater that you are...  

- 6pdr

P.S. And when will you keep your promise to stop beating your wife?  Wink
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 3:45 am

Gardner re Pulleine, LC was out of the loop..
im dropping off,we can take this up again
tmz.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 5:29 am

Impi.
That's really been the discussion between Julian and myself.
I think the line was created by necessity, it evolved in response to the threat and direction of the attack. Julians thoughts are that yes it did evolve but in a directed way by Pulleine, in accordance with the instructions to the Column Commanders.
We are happy to disagree on that point but the subsequent movements, these are the ones I think you refer to, were directed from an overall command tactic. That would have been dictated by Pulleine. So in short Pulleine placed the troops............until the line broke, after that it was down to who ever was directing those survival pods of men. Could have been a senior officer or even an NCO.
Ive been playing for a while. I emphasize playing with who could have commanded those retreating groups. Boils down really to those officers bodies that were found, Anstey, Durnford, Younghusband Pope etc.

Hope that helps.

Im surprised that those two eradite opponents from the States and Manchester haven't picked up on the most interesting point of that map, and in fact the real reason I kept it.
Look carefully at the lines of retreat by the fugitives, EITHER side of the Koppie, not just the Western face as tradition tells us.

That's not just a thought of mine, I know for a fact that Neil has also voiced an opinion on that in addition to the late Davis Rattray.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 5:44 am

Yes, I was just reading the account by a fugitive officer -- can't remember who -- but he said he tried to go between the hills but the right horn was already there and that forced him either on to or around Black's Koppie so there are eye witnesses/survivor accounts to corroborate that.

But I beg to differ with your claim that is the most interesting detail on the map.  I would point you to the location of the N/5 battery...directly north of and in line with the tents.  I think that was the original reason you fetched it up from your commodious archive -- i.e. to show Julian.

Where to begin with that one?  I will leave it to men of stouter heart.


Last edited by 6pdr on Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 5:47 am

6pr
That was a side issue. The split around the koppis is/could be a really important issue.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
6pdr

6pdr


Posts : 1086
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : NYC

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 5:54 am

springbok9 wrote:
The split around the koppis is/could be a really important issue.

Thank goodness, because I was down to my last can of worms. WHY?
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 6:21 am

Ahhh therein lies the rub!
Been wanting to use that phrase for years.
Nuff said.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 12:38 pm

yes springbok i did see that, i'm not really
big on minutia so at first did not see the
import, i feel you are off on a mission. will
be very interested to see where that goes.

yeah impi. ctsg, and then you 6pdr got up
my nose a tad last night, but its a rather
beautiful day here in manchester, will watch
my team later..so you can have this snippet,
which again so many of us are familiar with!

It was evidently time to recall the men fighting
on the spur and lieutenant Melvill rode out to
them with the order. "C" company 1st 24th
under Captain Reginald Younghushand was sent
to cover their retreat, while the remaining regulars
who had been drawn up in column of companies,
moved off towards the knoll. here "H" company
1st 24th under Captain Wardell joined "A" company
and the two deployed in skirmishing order on either
side of the guns..
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:00 pm

Spingbok the discussion between yourself and Julian, ended in disagreement.

For my part, I was trying to establish, who sent the men away from the camp. They were originally line up in front of the camp,a better chance of survival if they had remained there. However looking at your map. They ended up in small Compaines way out in the open. The Zulu route behind Isandlwana was left wide open, as we know, when the troops fell back to the camp, the Zulus were already there. In-hinesight reinforcing the camp, would have been a waste of time. There was no one left in the camp to make use of the reinforcements.

Les.  No
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2872
Join date : 2010-06-02

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:33 pm

Just a quick point about the map. It is a commercial publication by James Wyld - not "official" by the War Office. So, it is either a copy of an official map (which one ?), or it may simply be conjecture by Mr Wyld so far as the detail is concerned.

Steve
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:42 pm

and for the finest account of Isandhlwana i will ever read..

https://s1297.photobucket.com/user/xhosa2000/media/JAHR_zps764e18e7.jpg.html?sort=6&o=0
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:43 pm

impi
Don't take that map to literally.
The full sequence of movements can be boiled down as follows:
The Companies are stood to on the parade ground in front of the 2/24th by order of Pulleine
They are stood down by Pulleine at the request of Durnford.
One Company is sent onto the Tahelane Spur ( unclear who ordered this but either Pulleine or Durnford)
The companies are again stood to on the parade ground, Pulleines order.
Two NNH Companies sent to scout the plateau. Durnford.
One other Company is sent to the Spur. Pulleines order
Durnfords column moves out. Durnford
Two companie sent towards Rocky Ridge with the Guns.
Both companies are withdrawn. Pulleines order via Melvill
Younghusband sent forward to cover withdrawl, Pulleine
C, E and F withdrawn towards defence line, Pulleine
G Company sent to East end on line to cover Colonial, NNH and NNC withdrawl. Pulleine
Dyer posted into line and G company extended to South. Pulleine
Durnford returns to donger then retires. Durnford.
Defence line retires and splinters. Pulleine/Durnford.
Individual retreat. Company and section commanders.

As far as Im aware that is all the troop movements on and around the camp area

Cheers
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:46 pm

k sorry impi  Salute 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford   Durnford - Chelmsford, Pulline. &  Durnford - Page 10 EmptySat Mar 22, 2014 1:56 pm

springbok, where is that map from, is it
in greaves Isandhlwana? cant put my hand
on that book, might have been relegated
to the loft.. cheers mate
Back to top Go down
 
Chelmsford, Pulline. & Durnford
Back to top 
Page 10 of 12Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Pulline at Isandlwana
» Durnford was he capable.1
» Durnford was he capable.5
» Who was most culpable for the defeat at the Battle Of Isandlwana: Was Lord Chelmsford , Col Glyn, Col Pulleine, or Col Durnford.
» CHELMSFORD and the zulu people

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: