Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra » Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman » Baron Von Steitencron![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra » Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th » Writing advice![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra » South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879 » Hamilton Browne's birthday![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra » Zulu "Corps"![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:01 pm by Hobbes » Army Pay Department Personnel![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am by Julian Whybra » Ntshingwayo birth date![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:37 am by Hobbes » Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:11 pm by Julian Whybra » Smith's Store/Hotel![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. ![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Shaka iLembe![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm by Jon84 » Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment ![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman » Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra » Fairlie's Native Police![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes |
July 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Zulu muskets at Isandlwana | |
|
+7Frank Allewell 24th 90th joe ciroferrara Dave turkey1954 11 posters | Author | Message |
---|
turkey1954
Posts : 9 Join date : 2010-11-25
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:42 pm | |
| Given that the zulus who attacked Rorkes Drift were armed with muskets I imagine that those at Isandlwana were similarly armed. Does anyone know of any accounts which mention the use of muskets by zulus against the camp at Isandlwana? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Dave
![Dave](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/1-55.gif)
Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:36 pm | |
| Now that's a good question. I have not read any accounts of this. If there is it would have been from survivors or Zulu's |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | ciroferrara
![ciroferrara](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/222-38.jpg)
Posts : 284 Join date : 2010-10-07 Age : 33 Location : exeter
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:52 pm | |
| there are a few scattered accounts for intance a volley was fired at the rocket battery at the "notch" with major russell being shot twice |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | joe
![joe](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/66-38.gif)
Posts : 600 Join date : 2010-01-07 Location : UK
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:04 pm | |
| Ive never heard about Major Russel being shot twice, does anyone have any other information on this ? you do learn something new everday.
Joe |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: zulu muskets Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:34 pm | |
| Hi Joe. Maj Russel was indeed shot twice , the second one by memory was after Nourse had attempted to put him on a horse . Some instances , more than a couple are mentioned by Zulu's in Ian Knights Zulu Rising . The rocket battery were basically taken out by a volley from the zulu's . cheers 90th.
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 24th
![24th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/20-37.jpg)
Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:52 pm | |
| - Quote :
- Maj Russel was indeed shot twice
But was it by Musket or M.H |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: zulu muskets at Isandlwana Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:47 am | |
| Hi 24th . It was certainly musket fire , if it was a M.H I'm sure Nourse and the surviving members of the battery would have certainly mentioned so . If you are hinting at friendly fire , I doubt it , as the companies to the front of the camp I dont think had opened fire at that stage . cheers 90th. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:58 am | |
| Most suvivors, Essex, Brickhill, Smith Dorien mention the zulus guns. Mehlokazulu explains the zulu tactics regarding the guns. 90th is quite correct Russel was shot, Nourse tried to get him onto a horse to escape during which he was shot again.
Regards |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:08 am | |
| An even closer view of the action is to be found in General Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien’s Memories of Forty-Eight Years’ Service (London 1925) which records, amongst other extraordinary moments of the author’s long and distinguished career, the then twenty-one year-old Lieutenant Smith-Dorrien’s experiences of the battle:
"We could hear heavy firing (to the north) even then (8 am)… At about 12 am the Zulus, who had apparently fallen back behind the hills, again showed in large numbers, coming down into the plain with great boldness, and our guns and rifles were pretty busy for some time… It was difficult to see exactly what was going on, but firing was heavy. It was evident now that the Zulus were in great force, for they could be seen extending (ie throwing out their horns) away across the plain to the south-east…
Within another hour, the situation becomes increasingly desperate, with the advance of the Zulu army upon the camp:
[i]It was a marvellous sight, line upon line of men in slightly extended order, one behind the other, firing as they came along, for a few of them had firearms, bearing all before them. The rocket battery… was firing, and suddenly it ceased, and presently we saw the remnants of Durnford’s force, mostly mounted Basutos, galloping back to the right of our position… The ground was interspersed with ‘dongas’ and in them Russell and his rocket battery was caught, and none escaped to tell the tale"
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: zulu muskets at Isandlwana Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:16 am | |
| Hi Littlehand . One must be a lttle wary of Smith - Dorrien's accounts as he did write them 40 yrs or so after the event . One classic example is the Rocket Battery where he mentions ' None escaped to tell the Tale ' which is clearly incorrect as their were 5 I think Imperial Survivors whose accounts are in ' The Noble 24th By Norman Holme ' and the Colonial Officer Nourse who attempted to put Russell on a / his Horse but Russell was shot for the second time and fell off dead . I think by Nourse's account he says only 2 Rockets were actually fired . Happy to be corrected . cheers 90th. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:20 am | |
| To be honest, we should be wary of all the accounts from the survivors. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: zulu muskets at Isandlwana Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:28 am | |
| Hi Littlehand . You may have a point , but those who put pen to paper only a couple of days or a week or so after the event more than likely are the most accurate versions in their minds and mine anyway . cheers 90th. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | tasker224
![tasker224](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/174-90.jpg)
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 57 Location : North London
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:26 pm | |
| Just some thoughts. When Smith-Dorrien wrote, "Russell and his rocket battery was caught, and none escaped to tell the tale", surely he is referring only to the remnants of the Rocket Battery that he witnessed. The 5 members of the Rocket Battery who escaped, would have already been long gone by the time he saw the remnants and he wouldn't have seen them. If he had, so would the Zulus in pursuit and no doubt they would have been dealt with too. SD's account constitutes another piece of the iSandlwana jig-saw. I am not sure if I'd concur that it was less valid because it was written 40 years after the event. The poor fellow probably replayed those traumatic events in his mind every day until he passed away. Also, long term memory is the very least affected by the aging process.
|
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | impi
![impi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/153-96.jpg)
Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:31 pm | |
| |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | turkey1954
Posts : 9 Join date : 2010-11-25
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:34 am | |
| Thanks for all the replies. If you fellas are not sure then there is no definitive answer. From what I can gather there were some muskets at the battle but not enough to make a lot of difference. All right then nobody told you to stop working. Sorry couldn't resist it. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Neil Aspinshaw
![Neil Aspinshaw](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/42-32.jpg)
Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:32 am | |
| The most defined study of what percentage of firearms were being carried can be found in the report of Captain Edward Woodgate, after Khambula. Reporting into the quantity of captured rifles. This represents those lost as its owner met 480 grains of lead or shrapnel ball going rather quickly, or dropped in an attempt to run quicker in the retreat.
"325 firearms, .....including 14 Martini Henry rifles and one snider Carbine, ....The others firearms were of various patterns, a large number being tower muskets and other Enfield Rifles. No other breech loaders were found, except the 14 MH, nor any other kind of cartridge case, except a few Metford (not .303, my comment).
Not all "Tower Muskets" would be classed as flintlock types of 50 years before, by 1840 most smoothbore firearms were being converted to percussion cap, as found in the Pattern 1839 musket and other derivatives. Likewise, the two "popular" breechloaders of the time, the Terry Carbine and the Westley Richards Monkey tail, left no cartridge case as it was a self consuming paper round. Interesting as none were reported, or was it a carbine derivative is more portable?
Source: the Red Soldier: Emery: P175 para 5. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | turkey1954
Posts : 9 Join date : 2010-11-25
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:26 pm | |
| Just a thought. Wasnt there an archeological dig at the site some years ago. Any musket balls? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Neil Aspinshaw
![Neil Aspinshaw](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/42-32.jpg)
Posts : 553 Join date : 2009-10-14 Location : Loughborough
![Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:16 am | |
| In the museum at Mtonjaneni there are quite a few "musket balls", in fact they are erroneously labelled, they are actually case shot balls. Case shot balls were swaged, i.e. lead balls pressed in a mould, musket balls are cast, and have a sprue, ( a flat spot where the lead was poured into a ball mould, Only on close inspection can the difference be made.
The same is true of some of the bullet heads I see, for example, a .450" Martini round is totally different to a .450" Westley Ricards, likewise a .51" Terry Round is a differing type to a .577 Enfield or Snider. The only round which takes some closer inspection is a Snider- Enfield, typically a Snider has a clay base and most usually a hollow nose, as there was two variants, a spun over cavity, or a boxwood ballistic tip. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Zulu muskets at Isandlwana | |
|
Similar topics | ![+](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |