WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Zulu Dawn:“Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Captain Barry and his Picquet at Mkwene
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyToday at 11:17 pm by Chelmsfordthescapegoat

» Display fixings
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyToday at 10:26 pm by Chelmsfordthescapegoat

» I am a happy boy!
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyTue Sep 21, 2021 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Best Zulu wars documentary full.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 20, 2021 8:06 am by gardner1879

» Bt. Major. Harvey, C.L. 71st L.I.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Sep 17, 2021 7:28 pm by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant Thomas Leigh Hare, 24th
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyThu Sep 16, 2021 6:16 am by 90th

» FIND-A-GRAVE WEBSITE
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Sep 15, 2021 8:02 am by rai

» 2nd Lieutenant Thomas Leigh Hare, 24th - Sword
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyTue Sep 14, 2021 4:59 pm by Brin

» Henry William Longcast, Interpreter.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 13, 2021 8:35 pm by Trev

» Zulu Dinner Event 30th October
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 13, 2021 11:48 am by Julian Whybra

» Matabele Wars
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 13, 2021 7:57 am by Frank Allewell

» Alexandra Mounted Rifles, full biographical details
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Sep 11, 2021 8:38 am by bazley@mweb.co.za

» Rorke's Drift defenders.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyThu Sep 09, 2021 11:10 pm by Spudee

» Murray Charles Wyndham C.B
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Sep 08, 2021 6:49 am by Frank Allewell

» New Member - Old Questions?
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyTue Sep 07, 2021 11:20 pm by altfritz

» Brevet Major. Henry Spalding of Rorke's Drift and Information for Columns
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Sep 06, 2021 7:17 pm by 1879graves

» Lt. of Orderlies A. Hall AHC KIA Isandlwana
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySun Sep 05, 2021 11:22 pm by ADMIN

» Who had a rifle?
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySun Sep 05, 2021 3:49 pm by gardner1879

» Essential Research
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Sep 03, 2021 3:52 pm by Danny1960

» 1:72 Diorama of Ulundi
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyThu Sep 02, 2021 6:11 pm by philzrx

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyThu Sep 02, 2021 3:58 pm by philzrx

» Best book(s) regarding British military handguns circa AZW
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Sep 01, 2021 8:30 pm by Stand to

» Stolen Medals
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyTue Aug 31, 2021 8:23 am by ADMIN

» 25B/2164 Pte Nolan Michael, Richard or Robert?
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Aug 30, 2021 10:34 pm by Bill8183

» 2077 Gunner Arthur Howard. R.A.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyMon Aug 30, 2021 8:49 am by ADMIN

» "Ex-Sergeant Major Craven" - a Curio.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 29, 2021 9:06 pm by ADMIN

» Chard/Bromhead revolvers
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 28, 2021 1:06 pm by free1954

» martini - henry
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 am by Peter35

» Company Sergeant Major F. W. Peake, Royal Engineers
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Aug 28, 2021 12:58 am by ADMIN

» Trump. J.Best. Lonsdale's Horse
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Aug 27, 2021 11:23 am by ADMIN

» Off Topic Photograph Quiz
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Aug 25, 2021 9:17 am by 24th

» Shenanigans in the Mess
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Aug 25, 2021 5:35 am by WeekendWarrior

» Zulu War to Boer war. Those who served in both.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyTue Aug 24, 2021 9:51 pm by gardner1879

» LONGHURST, SEAWARD 1st Dragoon Guards.
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 22, 2021 10:40 pm by ADMIN

» Isandhlwana: Fate of Godwin Austin and Pope
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySun Aug 22, 2021 9:35 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
The Anglo-Zulu war: Walking the battlefield of Ulundi
Top posters
90th
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
littlehand
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
ADMIN
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
1879graves
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
rusteze
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
John
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Frank Allewell
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
gardner1879
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
WeekendWarrior
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
John Young
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
ADMIN
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
90th
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
1879graves
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
peter@zuluwars
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_leftZulu muskets at Isandlwana BarZulu muskets at Isandlwana Bar_right 
Most active topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.1
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
carbineers Isandlwana zulu henry williams Durnford martini horse james spalding Russell Police payne Woolfryes Prince George 24th smith john Mounted melvill taylor harford drift Natal Franklin
 

 Zulu muskets at Isandlwana

Go down 
+7
Frank Allewell
24th
90th
joe
ciroferrara
Dave
turkey1954
11 posters
AuthorMessage
turkey1954



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-11-25

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 09, 2011 1:42 pm

Given that the zulus who attacked Rorkes Drift were armed with muskets I imagine that those at Isandlwana were similarly armed. Does anyone know of any accounts which mention the use of muskets by zulus against the camp at Isandlwana? scratch
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 09, 2011 5:36 pm

Now that's a good question. I have not read any accounts of this. If there is it would have been from survivors or Zulu's
Back to top Go down
ciroferrara

ciroferrara

Posts : 226
Join date : 2010-10-07
Age : 30
Location : exeter

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 09, 2011 5:52 pm

there are a few scattered accounts for intance a volley was fired at the rocket battery at the "notch" with major russell being shot twice
Back to top Go down
joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 09, 2011 6:04 pm

Ive never heard about Major Russel being shot twice, does anyone have any other information on this ?
you do learn something new everday.

Joe
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10330
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: zulu muskets   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Hi Joe.
Maj Russel was indeed shot twice , the second one by memory was after Nourse had attempted to put him on a horse .
Some instances , more than a couple are mentioned by Zulu's in Ian Knights Zulu Rising . The rocket battery were
basically taken out by a volley from the zulu's .
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
24th

24th

Posts : 1857
Join date : 2009-03-25

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 09, 2011 10:52 pm

Quote :
Maj Russel was indeed shot twice
But was it by Musket or M.H
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10330
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyThu Feb 10, 2011 4:47 am

Hi 24th .
It was certainly musket fire , if it was a M.H I'm sure Nourse and the surviving members of the battery would
have certainly mentioned so . If you are hinting at friendly fire , I doubt it , as the companies to the front of the camp I
dont think had opened fire at that stage .
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7841
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyThu Feb 10, 2011 6:58 am

Most suvivors, Essex, Brickhill, Smith Dorien mention the zulus guns. Mehlokazulu explains the zulu tactics regarding the guns.
90th is quite correct Russel was shot, Nourse tried to get him onto a horse to escape during which he was shot again.

Regards
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 53
Location : Down South.

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 12:08 am

An even closer view of the action is to be found in General Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien’s Memories of Forty-Eight Years’ Service (London 1925) which records, amongst other extraordinary moments of the author’s long and distinguished career, the then twenty-one year-old Lieutenant Smith-Dorrien’s experiences of the battle:

"We could hear heavy firing (to the north) even then (8 am)… At about 12 am the Zulus, who had apparently fallen back behind the hills, again showed in large numbers, coming down into the plain with great boldness, and our guns and rifles were pretty busy for some time… It was difficult to see exactly what was going on, but firing was heavy. It was evident now that the Zulus were in great force, for they could be seen extending (ie throwing out their horns) away across the plain to the south-east…

Within another hour, the situation becomes increasingly desperate, with the advance of the Zulu army upon the camp:

[i]It was a marvellous sight, line upon line of men in slightly extended order, one behind the other, firing as they came along, for a few of them had firearms, bearing all before them. The rocket battery… was firing, and suddenly it ceased, and presently we saw the remnants of Durnford’s force, mostly mounted Basutos, galloping back to the right of our position… The ground was interspersed with ‘dongas’ and in them Russell and his rocket battery was caught, and none escaped to tell the tale"

Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10330
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 12:16 am

Hi Littlehand .
One must be a lttle wary of Smith - Dorrien's accounts as he did write them 40 yrs or so after the event . One classic
example is the Rocket Battery where he mentions ' None escaped to tell the Tale ' which is clearly incorrect as their were
5 I think Imperial Survivors whose accounts are in ' The Noble 24th By Norman Holme ' and the Colonial Officer Nourse
who attempted to put Russell on a / his Horse but Russell was shot for the second time and fell off dead . I think by Nourse's
account he says only 2 Rockets were actually fired . Happy to be corrected .
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 53
Location : Down South.

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 12:20 am

To be honest, we should be wary of all the accounts from the survivors.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10330
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 12:28 am

Hi Littlehand .
You may have a point , but those who put pen to paper only a couple of days or a week or so after the event more than
likely are the most accurate versions in their minds and mine anyway .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
tasker224

tasker224

Posts : 2101
Join date : 2010-07-30
Age : 54
Location : North London

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Just some thoughts.
When Smith-Dorrien wrote, "Russell and his rocket battery was caught, and none escaped to tell the tale", surely he is referring only to the remnants of the Rocket Battery that he witnessed. The 5 members of the Rocket Battery who escaped, would have already been long gone by the time he saw the remnants and he wouldn't have seen them. If he had, so would the Zulus in pursuit and no doubt they would have been dealt with too. SD's account constitutes another piece of the iSandlwana jig-saw. I am not sure if I'd concur that it was less valid because it was written 40 years after the event. The poor fellow probably replayed those traumatic events in his mind every day until he passed away. Also, long term memory is the very least affected by the aging process.

Back to top Go down
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 41

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 7:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
turkey1954



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-11-25

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 12, 2011 12:34 am

Thanks for all the replies. If you fellas are not sure then there is no definitive answer. From what I can gather there were some muskets at the battle but not enough to make a lot of difference. All right then nobody told you to stop working. Sorry couldn't resist it.
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 12, 2011 10:32 am

The most defined study of what percentage of firearms were being carried can be found in the report of Captain Edward Woodgate, after Khambula. Reporting into the quantity of captured rifles. This represents those lost as its owner met 480 grains of lead or shrapnel ball going rather quickly, or dropped in an attempt to run quicker in the retreat.

"325 firearms, .....including 14 Martini Henry rifles and one snider Carbine, ....The others firearms were of various patterns, a large number being tower muskets and other Enfield Rifles. No other breech loaders were found, except the 14 MH, nor any other kind of cartridge case, except a few Metford (not .303, my comment).

Not all "Tower Muskets" would be classed as flintlock types of 50 years before, by 1840 most smoothbore firearms were being converted to percussion cap, as found in the Pattern 1839 musket and other derivatives. Likewise, the two "popular" breechloaders of the time, the Terry Carbine and the Westley Richards Monkey tail, left no cartridge case as it was a self consuming paper round. Interesting as none were reported, or was it a carbine derivative is more portable?

Source: the Red Soldier: Emery: P175 para 5.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
turkey1954



Posts : 9
Join date : 2010-11-25

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 12, 2011 12:26 pm

Just a thought. Wasnt there an archeological dig at the site some years ago. Any musket balls?
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Zulu muskets at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu muskets at Isandlwana   Zulu muskets at Isandlwana EmptySun Feb 13, 2011 8:16 am

In the museum at Mtonjaneni there are quite a few "musket balls", in fact they are erroneously labelled, they are actually case shot balls. Case shot balls were swaged, i.e. lead balls pressed in a mould, musket balls are cast, and have a sprue, ( a flat spot where the lead was poured into a ball mould, Only on close inspection can the difference be made.

The same is true of some of the bullet heads I see, for example, a .450" Martini round is totally different to a .450" Westley Ricards, likewise a .51" Terry Round is a differing type to a .577 Enfield or Snider. The only round which takes some closer inspection is a Snider- Enfield, typically a Snider has a clay base and most usually a hollow nose, as there was two variants, a spun over cavity, or a boxwood ballistic tip.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
 
Zulu muskets at Isandlwana
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: