WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyYesterday at 1:33 pm by John Young

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 pm by ADMIN

» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:52 pm by ADMIN

» Quarter-Master William London
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm by ADMIN

» Tpr. John Ross Natal Carbineer
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:27 pm by ADMIN

» Non-Combat Casualties in Colonial and Native Units
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 3:50 pm by 1879graves

» 2/4th Foot at Hlobane/Kambula
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 4:12 am by 90th

» England's Sons 9th edition
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyWed Aug 26, 2020 6:20 pm by Herbie

» Strange tales from Isandlwana
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 4:25 pm by SRB1965

» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:48 pm by Visitor

» Militaria Sale
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 5:59 pm by Frank Allewell

» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am by 90th

» Malicious website
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptySun Aug 16, 2020 9:06 pm by ADMIN

» Rorkes drift Hotel
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyThu Aug 13, 2020 7:00 pm by robert taylor

» Durnford's medical officer
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 11:36 am by SRB1965

» Charles Sparks - any information available?
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 9:23 am by Julian Whybra

» back to the future
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyWed Aug 05, 2020 1:35 pm by aussie inkosi

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Black as Hell, Thick as Grass
Top posters
90th
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
littlehand
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
ADMIN
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
1879graves
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
rusteze
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
John
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
John Young
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
De Passey
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
ADMIN
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Kenny
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
90th
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
SRB1965
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
1879graves
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Digger
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Catiline63
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_leftLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards BarLt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Adding to the Library
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
smith Durnford spalding harford taylor melvill zulu gardner Isandlwana Russell Woolfryes henry horse john Police drift james martini payne Franklin 24th George Natal Prince william Mounted

 

 Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7578
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Empty
PostSubject: Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards   Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Feb 14, 2011 11:04 am

(In the Donga) Davis noted with concern that the uMbonambi were massing in the hollows bellow the conical Kopie, risking cross fire to press between Durnfords left and Popes Company. He, Davies, then took 15 men and went for ammunition, on his way back with some 600 rounds, he noticed that groups on uMbonambi had penetrated between Durnford and Pope and were fast aproaching the tents.

Edwards
..................men began to realise the hopeless position (in the donga) suddenly one shouted, "The zulus are in the camp", and they were with a vengeance.

The uMbonambi were credited by Cetswayo as being first into the camp. So before the donga gave way the Zulu were allready behind the mounted men, to the left and to the right and in the camp.

Therefore if contempory authors, Snook te al, are to be believed , ( and they have gone to considerably lengths to prove that point) Pullein had positioned himself to the left front of the camp area to see the right flank. The question now arrises that if we accept all these facts why didnt Pullein pull back Pope before Durnford abandoned the donga. I beilieve the military minded among the forum would call it refusing the right flank.

Just a thought for discussion.

Regards
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10130
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Empty
PostSubject: Lt Harry Davis and Trpr Edwards .   Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyMon Feb 14, 2011 10:48 pm

HI Springbok .
Bare with me here I'm only summarising as I havent walked the ground at Isandlwana . The ground I believe is rather difficult
possibly Pulleine couldnt see Pope's Co from the position he was occupying ? . If I remember correctly , Durnford only
abandoned the donga because he was running out of ammunition , therefore Pulleine wouldnt have had any idea that
this was about to happen ? . Also didnt Pulleine send Pope to the donga in the hope of holding the donga with the
extra men ? . Poor Charlie Pope was on his way to the donga ( hence him being to the right of the firing line ) when
Durnford mounted up and withdrew , basically leaving Pope out to dry . Also as I stated Durnford was running low on
ammo as he had sent back several people to get ammo but they basically came back empty handed if they came back
at all or were fruitlessly searching for their ammunition wagon ! . Durnford could more than likely see that the left horn was
getting around his right flank and knew they would be cut off , so therefore his position became untenable and he had
no option but to withdraw .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7578
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards   Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyTue Feb 15, 2011 6:23 am

Hi 90th
Point by point.
Yes from various points of the firing line the Donga is invisible. However from around a third of the way down Popes line, hypothetical placing, it is highly visible.
Mike Snook has gone to great trouble, in attempting to exonerate Pullein, in placing him at the front line. Its conjectured by him that it was Pullein who called for the withdrawl on seeing Durnford pull back, therefore the donga would have been visible.
The area of penetration between Pope and Durnford would therefore have been visible, after all if you see a bunch of screaming Zulus heading towards your tents its pretty obvious that some thing is afoot. From that point the left horn has curled around Durnfords flank, he is seperated from Pope by the incursions. So he packs up, loses control and runs for it. The point Im trying to make is I suppose that there were other factors over the 'low ammo state' that caused the withdrawl and subsequent loss.
Assume Dirnford had a mythical supply of ordinance, would ir have made a difference? Zulus to the left of him, Zulus to the right, ( with apologise to Alfred Lord Tennyson) and Zulus about to perform rectal surgery. The line was breached the best case scenario would have involved a pocket of men isolated in the Donga while ethe left horn streamed around him.
Does that make any kind of sense?
I spent some time walking the position from the guns position down to the end of the donga, just passed the road crossing. Its a hell of a distance to cover. When I walked back to Popes cairns and you look around, you only then start to apreciate the vast length covered by Pope, Bradsteet and Durnford. Plot the aprox number of men onto the mind map and it just doesnt come across as a perfect defensive position. Probable Durnfords position was a wrong choice, if he needed the shelter of the donga he should have taken up a position a few hundred meters closer to the conical Kopie. Even then, that would have closed the gap and made the line stronger but would have made the left horns flanking movement evem easier. No win situation.

Just thinking aloud is all.

Regards
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10130
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Empty
PostSubject: Lt Harry Davis and Trpr Edwards .   Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards EmptyTue Feb 15, 2011 1:12 pm

Hi Springbok.
I can see your point in regard to Durnford having the mythical rounds . Ie . He would as you say still have little choice
but to withdraw as he wasnt in the best position the Donga could have afforded ? . So , there wasnt much he could have done
either way ?. Interesting thoughts .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards   Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: