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 Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.

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1879graves
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PostSubject: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptySat Feb 19, 2011 7:12 pm

Henry Morgan. V.C. born on October 11, 1840,

”His earliest personal memories are of Portsmouth. The turning point of his career was when, at the age of fourteen, he was sent on an errand to the corner store by his mother. The press gang grabbed him and the next his relatives knew was that he was in the 'service' on board the training ship Victory. The years 1855 and l856 found him on board H.M.S. Argus, chasing slave traders off the African coast. In 1859 he served through the China War. In 1870 he suffered ship wreck on H.M.S. Captain. Of a crew of 500, only 29 souls were saved.

In 1879 he went through the Zulu War and was awarded the Victoria Cross for conspicuous bravery. Three years later he again saw action at the bombardment of Alexandria by the British fleet, in July, 1882. He was wounded at this engagement and shortly afterwards left the navy and joined the merchant marine.” (From an interview on his 86th birthday “The Western Australian”, 12 October 1926.)

Full Article:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31954128?searchTerm=zulu war navy victoria cross&searchLimits=

There is a Henry Morgan on the Medal Roll for HMS Active. He served ashore with the naval brigade and was entitled to medal with clasp "1879". (No V.C.; not even M.I.D.)

If this is the same man, I think he has told his war stories too many times.

Petty Officer Tom
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptySat Feb 19, 2011 7:38 pm

Here you go Tom. http://1879zuluwar.forumotion.com/t3134-henry-morgan-vc
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyMon Feb 21, 2011 1:39 pm

Hi P.O. Tom

I have been trying to find a survivors list for HMS Captain, as this was a famous ship in 1870 and there were only 18 survivors.
But no luck yet! The only thing I have found is a photograph of all 18 survivors, but it does not name them.
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyMon Feb 21, 2011 2:12 pm

Hi All

I have now managed to find a survivors list

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As we can see from the list, there is no Henry Morgan listed Suspect

Now with loads of holes in Henry Morgan's story, I would say he is not the one listed for HMS Active. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyMon Feb 21, 2011 5:26 pm

1879graves,

Well done! Idea

There just doesn't seem to be a shortage in the Australian newspapers, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, of those who claim military service in the Zulu War.

This is a list of men I have found in Australia newspapers who claimed to have served in the navy, or marines, in the Zulu War.

George Kirkaldie – verified HMS Shah
J. Glazbrook – verified HMS Shah
Harry Figg – verified HMS Boadicea
J. G. Sparkes – verified HMS Shah
E. Highman – verified HMS Shah
Henry Morgan
Joseph Blacker
Arthur John Sharman
William Lacey
F. Harvey
Frank Buckley
Sam Godkins
Thomas Lennox Seaton
R. Beck
W. C. White, R.M.L.I.

Some of these have already been covered in this forum, and some havn't. The archives of Australian newspapers are readily accessible. I wonder if the British papers of the same time period had as many claimants.

Petty Officer Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyMon Feb 21, 2011 6:35 pm

Another little point to bear in mind whilst reading his story is that press gang 'recruitment' was abolished at the end of the Napoleonic Wars!
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyMon Feb 21, 2011 9:24 pm

Good point, Neil! Idea I completely mised that one.

Petty Officer Tom
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90th

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PostSubject: Claims to be a zulu war veteran   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyTue Feb 22, 2011 12:52 am

Hi all .
With communications as they were back in the late 1800's I surprised there werent more people out in here Australia
telling a few '' Porky Pies '' about their so called '' service record '' . With no real quick way of authenticating anything
this would have been bound to happen .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyTue Feb 22, 2011 9:40 am

90th,

I agree that there were, and still are, those who like to embelilsh their "service records." I have certainly known a few here in the States.

I wish the access to newspaper archives were as easy with the papers in the U.S. and Britain as they are in Australia. Thank you National Library of Australia. There would be more old veterans out there to uncover.

Petty Officer Tom
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paddyb




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Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. Empty
PostSubject: Thomas Lennox Seaton   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyThu May 17, 2012 1:53 am

Hi Guys I came across this site when looking for info regarding Thomas Lennox Seaton. He was my wife's Grandfather.

I have come to a halt finding any info on him other than what HE HAS quoted in the newspapers and what my in-laws & their rellys have been able to supply. He has only 3 living rellys left & only one of them (87) can actually remember him as a child.

I have a painting of him in full uniform dating in the early 1920's and a couple of battered fotos. I have his medals (unnamed & unnumbered) but the ribbons are gone & I also have the gold buttons from his dress uniform. He was supposedly a 'boy' when he joined the RN (around 1866-8) rising to the CPO position on the HMS Inflexible. I cannot find any reference to him migrating to Australia in the late 1890's either assisted passage or otherwise.

Would anyone have any info advising how to get a crew list for the HMS Inflexible to see if he really was who he purported to be ?

thanks in advance, Paddy B
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyThu May 17, 2012 8:35 am

paddyb,

Welcome to the forum!

I checked the National Archive on-line catalogue. They list only 9 men named “Seaton” who were born between 1839 and 1852 that joined the navy. None of them were Thomas Seaton.

What are the medals that you have?

What year was he on “Inflexible?” You will probably need to contact the National Archives at Kew to find any crew list.


Petty Officer Tom
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyThu May 17, 2012 2:20 pm

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paddyb




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PostSubject: Re:Thomas Lennox Seaton    Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyFri May 18, 2012 2:50 am

Thank you for the welcome and replies. The medals are 1879 South Africa & 1882 Egypt, the ones I have are only 11/16 of an inch in diameter. I am trying to get a hold of the originals about 2000 miles away if they still exist. The great grandson, who I have been told has them, is elusive to say the least.

We think that he may have joined the RN @ 14 or so & we know that he was in Cairns Aussie in 1897, Married in 1899 in Cairns. His DOB is around 1854. That puts him on 'Inflexible' around 1868 + or - a couple of years.

I have searched Ancestry.com with negative results. I think I have nearly exhausted the N Archives UK over the months.

Cheers
Paddy





[img]http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/printArticleJpg/42939837/3?print=n[/img
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PostSubject: partial breakthru   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyWed Aug 15, 2012 4:17 am

Hi Petty Officer Tom, I have had a bit of a win. The info re T L Seatons medals.

1. COMASSIE on the bar. N98004. T L Seaton. AF HMS Rattlesnake. 1873-74.

2. 1879 on bar, South Africa, T L Seaton, Leading Seaman, HMS SHAH.

3. Alexandria on bar, 11th July on bar, T L Seaton, 2nd Class PO, HMS Inflexible.

With a bit of luck more info will surface now.

Cheers, Paddyb
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyWed Aug 15, 2012 9:16 pm

Paddyb,

I have checked two different medal rolls for the Royal Navy involved in the Zulu War. Thomas Lennox Seaton is not on either roll.

It is possible that they accidently left him off, and that he applied for the medal at a later time. If you find a copy of his service record it will show the dates that he served on HMS Shah. He would have to have served on board at any time between 6 March 1879 and 24 July 1879 to be entitled to the medal without clasp, and from 7 March to 21 July 1879 with the Naval Brigade in Zululand to be entitled to the “1879” clasp.

If you can prove that he served on “Shah” during the time periods listed above, he would be entitled to the medal as being “verified aboard, not on roll,” or “VANOR”.

Have you been able to locate his service record, or is your information relayed to you by a relative? If you have had the opportunity to see his South Africa Medal, what is engraved on the rim? A photograph of the medal, especially the engraving on the rim, would provide more information.

You mentioned earlier that you had “a couple of battered fotos” of Seaton. Are you able to post any of them on the forum?

Now we come to the part that makes me doubt Thomas Seaton’s memory. You posted a copy of an article in the ‘Moring Post’ dated 10 October 1899. The following is a quote from that article:

“The next medal shown was the ‘South African,’ bearing the date July 4th, 1879, when the battle of Ulundi was fought by 8000 British troops and blue-jackets against 25,000 Zulus. Here Seaton fought with the Naval Brigade for seven hours in that historical hand to hand struggle between the trained forces of England and the intrepid warlike Zulus, who, armed with sniders, assegais and kerri sticks, threw themselves fearlessly and constantly on the points of the British bayonets and seamen’s cutlasses when they were shot and cut down in thousands.”

1. The bar on the medal would not have had “July 4th, 1879” on the bar.

2. Other than Lieutenant A. B. Milne, there were no naval personnel at the Battle of Ulundi.

3. I know only a little about the Battle of Ulundi, but the numbers of combatants and the length of the battle (7 hours) appear to be off.



Petty Officer Tom
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90th

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Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. Empty
PostSubject: Claims to be zulu war naval veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyThu Aug 16, 2012 1:10 am

Hi Petty Officer Tom.
I think an hour or so would see out the Ulundi battle . The only Battle in the zulu war that went near 7 hrs duration was
R.Drift which was about 12 hrs ??.
Cheers 90th. Salute
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paddyb




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Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyThu Aug 16, 2012 2:29 am

Petty Officer Tom,

The info was from a relly. She made no mention of the 4th July 1879 on any medal as reported in the newspaper article. The only mention she made of a date was on the HMS Inflexible medal showing 'Alexandria 11th July' on the bar. She never mentioned a service record either but I will ask her if she has one.

I will contact her and ask for photos of the medals & rims if possible.

The 2nd photo showing the names of the 2 outsiders have the names reversed. Tom Seaton is on the right side.

cheers, Paddyb

http://www.mediafire.com/conv/bad305cb48c00765a2b90a8ae83a95f6921944d4d1b5143c9902c9ba5b0409e24g.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/conv/5cafca9dece61963f99b52ceb65d1578ff00e52ab43911076c0cf1e0fad284b26g.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptySun Mar 17, 2013 6:53 pm

Not clear but readable....

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paddyb




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PostSubject: Re: Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C.   Claims To Be Zulu War Naval Veteran with V.C. EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 6:23 am

Hello again Petty Officer Tom. The South Africa Medal has T L Seaton Leading Seaman HMS SHAH 1879 on the rim. The relative who has the medals read the info to me from the medal today.
cheers Paddyb
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