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agoodcuppa



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-31
Age : 51
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2011 - 9:08

[list=1][*]

Firstly, 'Hi' to all the members,

I am new here and have spent a while reading all your accounts and details with interest. I am somewhat lost though as I am wondering if anyone can shine any light on our families history.

My Great Garampy was John Manley, a private serving at Rorke's Drift in 1879. He was a patient in the hospital at the time the Zulu's attacked. I am assuming he managed to be one of those who got out to safety possibly through the holes made in the walls!

My late Nanna rememberes that he had a military funeral but we know very little about where he was laid to rest etc..

Some members of the family have mixed info and some, non at all.

Can anyone tell me anything about John Manley at all? I have no photo's sadly...a great shame.

He came from Cork. S.Ireland but that is all I know about him. Oh yes, I think his depot might have been Sheffield...not 100% on that.

Many thanks,

Becky xx
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7672
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2011 - 11:19

I have a John Manley on the defenders roll from the 2/24th.
There were around 30 patients in the hospital but we only know the names of 17. Manley isnt mentioned by name in any of the accounts so its possible he was in the hospital.
I have no doubt that one of the forum members will be able to give chapter and verse of his career
Some further bits that have popped up.
He was born in Cork in 1850, served at the hillsborough barracks from his attestment in 65 untill december 68.

Hope that helps
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1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3100
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2011 - 18:03

Hi agoodcuppa

Welcome to the forum, this is the information I have on John Manley,

He attested at Cork on 17th April 1865, aged 15 years and 3 months. He was 5’ 1” tall. He was appointed drummer on 1st December 1866. Served at the depot until posted to 2nd/24th Regiment about December 1868. He was reduced to a Private on 14th July 1868. Appointed Drummer 1st January 1869, but reduced to a Private again on 7th August 1876. He was a patient in the hospital at Rorke’s Drift at the time of the Zulu attack. He was sent to Netley on 1st February 1880. Date of discharge not traced.
Medal for South Africa with Clasp ‘1877-8-9’. On Dunbar’s list he wrongly named as ‘Momley.

A press report dated 7/2/1885, reads as follows ( Gloster Journal, 7 February 1885, Regimental Archive}: 'John Manley (34}, soldier, was charged with criminally assaulting Eliza Jenkins, on January 9th at Stoke Bishop. The prisoner at first pleaded guilty, but afterwards, acting under the advice of his counsel withdrew that plea, and pleaded guilty to an attempted assault. Mr Griffiths, on behalf of the prosecution, said he thought the ends of justice would be met by accepting the plea, and not proceeding further with the case. The jury then returned a formal verdict of guilty of attempted assault. Mr Sim then , addressed the Judge in mitigation of sentence. He said that the prisoner had served 20 years in the army. He had been in India, and was one of the defenders of Rorke's Drift. He had been reduced from the rank of Corporal for drunkenness, but that was the only thing against him. He had an attack of sunstroke, and was invalided home, and ever since very little drink sufficed to overcome him. He was a married man and had two children. The prisoner had no recollection of the offence, but the depositions showed that some sort of an assault was committed upon the girl, to whom the prisoner tendered his deepest regret for having molested her. Mr Sim then called Police Sergeant Townsend of Horfield, and Colour Sergeant Staite, of Gloucester, who gave the prisoner a good character. The former said when he apprehended the prisoner he seemed very queer and the worse for drink. The prisoner, who seemed to feel his position, wept during his counsel's speech. -his lordship, in passing sentence, said he would give weight to the eloquent appeal made by Mr Sim; but he was convinced that he had reduced himself to his miserable and melancholy position through an over indulgence in intoxicating liquors. Looking at the case in the most favourable light he dare, having regard to the pure administration of justice and punishment of a great wrong, the sentence he pronounced was that the prisoner be imprisoned and kept in hard labour for 18 months.'
Served in India. Served in the Kaffir War 1878. Served in the Zulu War 1879, a Private in A Company at the defence of Rorke's Drift.
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agoodcuppa



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-31
Age : 51
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2011 - 21:22

Oh WOW! You are amazing! Yep...that's him! It looks to me like War got to him big time. He did have two children..My great Grandma Christine and he also had a son Michael. Thank you so much for that information..really, I appreciate it so much x
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agoodcuppa



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-31
Age : 51
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyThu 31 Mar 2011 - 21:38

agoodcuppa wrote:
Oh WOW! You are amazing! Yep...that's him! It looks to me like War got to him big time. He did have two children..My great Grandma Christine and he also had a son Michael. Thank you so much for that information..really, I appreciate it so much x

Despite his wrong doings, I know my Great, Great Grandad was a good man and he served his country well. I hope the members on the site will understand this and not judge him harshly.
My Nanna spoke proudly of him and on one occassion after taking my mum to see the film Zulu, she stood up in the cinema and told mum 'Your Great Grandad fought in that war'!
It must have taken it's toll on him, having to witness the amount of death at Rorke's Drift and watching your fellow soldiers being mutilated must have driven him a bit mad, I know it would me!
I am proud of the man John Manley and I am proud that he served our country.

I wish I knew where he was buried. I know his children Christine and Michael returned to Ireland, during the Potato famine Christine returned, married (became Cook) and had my Nanna Blanch Christina Cook who married William Messom. William Messom by the way was one of the first ever paid professional footballers for Tottenham Hotspurs!
I have learnt so much in the past 48 hours! Need a cup of tea and a biscuit to digest it all.

Thank you chaps and bless all who served at Rorke's Drift in Jan 1879. They ALL deserved to be remembered and treasured. x

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90th

90th

Posts : 10194
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Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Can anyone help me ?   Can anyone help me? EmptyFri 1 Apr 2011 - 0:42

Hi agoodcuppa .
Welcome to the forum and here are a couple more details on your GG Grandad .
2nd Batt , 24th Regt , A Co. 2 / 24 / 1731 Private . John Manley .
Listed as Hospital Patient ( Possible ) but it seems he was there . This from England's Sons by Julian Whybra .
cheers 90th . Idea
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agoodcuppa



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-31
Age : 51
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyFri 1 Apr 2011 - 1:06

90th wrote:
Hi agoodcuppa .
Welcome to the forum and here are a couple more details on your GG Grandad .
2nd Batt , 24th Regt , A Co. 2 / 24 / 1731 Private . John Manley .
Listed as Hospital Patient ( Possible ) but it seems he was there . This from England's Sons by Julian Whybra .
cheers 90th . Idea


How do you do that....I mean...find all this stuff out? You are like Harry Potter with a rifle! tee hee

Does anyone on here have or have seen a photo of my John Manley on you travels? I have looked but don't seem to see anything. He was 5 feet 1 inch which was tiny for the 24th Reg! Let me know guys if you do...I shall be eternally grateful xx
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7672
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyFri 1 Apr 2011 - 7:42

Becky

There are two photos taken of the defenders of RD, taken in Pine town after the war. If he was still around its possible he would be in one or both of the photos, however the participants are unnamed.
:lol!: Harry Potter with a rifle :lol!: That just about sums up Graves. he he, gotta love it

Im glad you show such evident pride in your ancestors ( one of my uncles was hung for stealing a sheep in Newcastle )

Regards

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tony24th



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-08

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyFri 1 Apr 2011 - 16:15

I had a quick search on a rootsweb site and typed in a few details as posted above, the first few searches yielded nothing but by adding / deleting search terms, one matches a person named in a 'BUTCHER' family tree.
I'm not a member so I wasn't able to view the details but here are the criteria met for the matching person.

Name : John Manley
Birth : 1850 cork
Military service event : 1881
Any event : 1879 natal
Location : Horfield

Those search terms match somebody elses from the butcher family, if you're a member you can look it up and see if it's him on this link....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


I don't know if you have a date or location of death so the info below may help (if it's him)

When looking up death notices for the name I found that a John Manley was recorded as having died in Tiverton 1908 aged 57 which would tally with his age as he may have turned 58 later in the year making his Birthdate 1850.
I suppose there were a few John Manley's born in 1850 so it isn't definite.
However, in the same Tiverton, same month, an Eliza Manley also died.
I thought I'd post this as he was in court regarding an Eliza.
Clutching at straws maybe but you never know, a cemetery / parish records or census search in the Tiverton area may uncover something.



If that reveals nothing, the police officer in the 1885 case could have been Sgt. George Townsend, county police station, olive place, Bristol. (he was at this station as early as 1876 and was the sergeant in charge covering the Horfield ward)
Might be worth enquiring as to whether case records are still held in police or court archives.



Good luck
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agoodcuppa



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-31
Age : 51
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptySun 26 Oct 2014 - 18:56

With many, many thanks to you all for responding to my calls for help. At last I have found John Manley.
We are having a Military style Memorial for him at Carlton Cemetery, Nottingham on 2nd [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] welcome.

Please check out the link for information.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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agoodcuppa



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-03-31
Age : 51
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyMon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:13

Can anyone let me know if there is any chance of me getting a photo of John Manley from anywhere???! I have a photo of his Daughter Christina but am desperate to get a photo of him. Will the war records have one of him perhaps? Can anyone help?
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SergioD

SergioD

Posts : 401
Join date : 2012-03-27
Age : 58
Location : London/Herts

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyMon 27 Oct 2014 - 17:22

you might want to try contacting Kris Wheatley

She might be planning to write up your ancestor in her excellent legacy series and might have some photos.

She can be contacted via [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Good luck and great ancester - all i could come up with was a Seaman on HMS Shah who had my mother's Italian Maiden name- must be related lol

regrards

SergioD

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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyTue 28 Oct 2014 - 12:15

I'll be there with some of the Diehard Company so come over and say hello.
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http://www.martinihenry.org
ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 4049
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 61
Location : KENT

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyTue 28 Oct 2014 - 16:18

If possible, can someone get some photo's / Videos for the forum. Salute
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2392
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: Can anyone help me?   Can anyone help me? EmptyThu 13 Nov 2014 - 10:59

agoodcuppa
I have a lot of information on John Manley.  I did not want to make it generally available to all on the website as some of it is rather sensitive and personal to your family...so I've sent it to you as a private message.
One thing I am very interested in, is that in your first post you mentioned that Manley WAS a patient in the hospital.  It has always been assumed he was, but there is no documented evidence that he was.  How did YOU know?  Is it oral tradition in your family that he was?
Regards
Julian Whybra
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