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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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 The Colenso's

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Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Saul David 1879
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Saul David 1879




Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyWed Oct 19, 2011 8:32 pm

Looking at two other discussions, I was thinking is it really fair to dismiss what the Colenso's have to say about the Zulu War, and their thoughts and perhaps what they witnessed. We seemed to be bias, because of the relationship between Fanny Colenso and Col: Durnford. Mainly relating to the fact that Fanny Colenso wrote a book to clear Durnford's name. Perhaps it  would be wise to look more in- dept at what they really had to say. 

Littlehand perhaps you could post a link to the book you are reading at present, which would enable us to get a better understanding of what their opinions were at the time. 
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2594
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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyWed Oct 19, 2011 9:00 pm

Maybe it would be worth while looking at what the Colenso's had to say. After all William Colenso was a very important man.
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impi

impi


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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyWed Oct 19, 2011 11:30 pm

But it must be taken into account, that Bishop Colenso was totally against the War. What I have read, he says nothing good about the English. He blames the English for atrocities against the Zulus, as you can see by Littlehands post in the other discussion, he doesn't commit himself as Fanny did with regards to the order. He says he may have been put in command. So do we take the word of someone who was all for the Zulu cause but totally against the British.

I think it would be wise, to keep an open mind with regards to the Colenso writings.
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littlehand

littlehand


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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyThu Oct 20, 2011 3:46 pm

Along the lines of Impi Post.

"J. Dunn is understood to have come back from his interview with the last peace messengers, and to have reported that the message is bona fide, and that Cetshwayo means to have peace if possible. I am quite sure that an honourable and safe peace might be made at once ; but I am equally sure that nothing will satisfy Sir B. Frere, and therefore also Lord Chelmsford, but the deposition of Cetshwayo, which is what is meant by ' unconditional sub- mission.' If this is insisted on, it is my firm belief that the war will still go on, or rather will be begun again, with further vast sacrifices of blood and treasure to the English, and horrible slaughter of the unfortunate Zulus. . . .

*' I ought to have mentioned in my last that Bishop Schreuder, I believe, has all along acted a friendly part towards Cetshwayo ; and also Dean Green and another of Bishop Macrorie's clergy have spoken out manfully against Sir B. Frere's proceedings, and the injustice of this war. "


Source: BISHOP COLENSO
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Eric




Posts : 116
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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyThu Oct 20, 2011 6:42 pm

Bishop Colenso and his children were great activists for the rights of the African people in KZN. They defended to African people against the machinations of the colonial administration and colonists. Harriet went on to play a major role in trying to preserve a degree of Zulu autonomy after the AZW.
Jeff Guys books are the best for an overview of this remarkable family.
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Dave

Dave


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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyThu Oct 20, 2011 9:18 pm

The Zulu's would have spoken to the Colenso's. With this in mind it may give some Zulu accounts of what took place. I don't have the book so hopefully Littlehand can post a link. As asked by S.D
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littlehand

littlehand


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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyThu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 pm

Dave / SD. Its not a link i can post. Or I would have done!!!!

Anyway. Here's another from the Bishop. He must have been looking into his crystal Ball with this one.

" I suppose that you will know for certain in England, before we shall know it in Natal, whether it is really true that Lord Chelmsford fought this last battle in disregard of Sir G. Wolseley's orders to stay hostilities, shutting one eye as Nelson did, and not winking with the other. . . . If so, it may be doubted if he will be received on his return to England as heartily as at Maritzburg and at Durban. ... If, indeed, they suppose in England that this affair of Ulundi has been a ' splendid success,' and has really brought the war and the Wicked-expenditure to an end, he may be welcomed by the English multitude, in spite of his disobedience to or neglect of orders".
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littlehand

littlehand


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The Colenso's Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Colenso's   The Colenso's EmptyThu Oct 20, 2011 11:05 pm

I'll leave you with this one. The Bishop Colenso's news on Isandlwana.

"The details of the late disaster have to some extent arrived, and terrible they are even as at present known. The list of missing {zSmos\. all of whom are believed to be dead, though some may yet turn up who had escaped) is frightful. . . . It is a disaster such as has not befallen the British arms since the last Afghan War.

" It appears that the General, having crossed into Zululand, with the third column under Colonel Glynn, marched forward on the 22nd, leaving the force in his camp under the command of Colonel Pulleine to come on with baggage- waggons and ammunition. An immense body of Zulus, who had heard from their scouts of this advance (what our oivn scouts were doing does not appear), fell upon the camp with irresistible daring, utterly reckless of their own lives, and crushing by their multitudes the British force.
Colonel Durnford had been ordered to bring up from his post (the second column) his mounted natives and rocket battery to strengthen the convoying force, but only arrived just as the Zulu force was arriving, and only to add his own force and himself to the general loss. I mention this fact particularly, because in a telegram which Sir B. Frere sent to the Commodore at the Port, he says, ' You will have heard of Colonel Durnford's misfortune on the 22nd.' What he means by this I cannot conceive. . . .
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