WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Smith's Store/Hotel
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue May 14, 2024 7:17 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra

» Zulu "Corps"
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat May 04, 2024 10:44 pm by Julian Whybra

» Fairlie's Native Police
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

» Francis Shirley Russell 14th Hussars
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyMon Apr 29, 2024 12:20 pm by IntCorpsMedals

» Looking for the medal to 1423 Pte. W. Gregg/Greig
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Apr 27, 2024 1:46 am by sam steele

» 1409 Pte David Lloyd, Defender of Rorke's Drift
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 26, 2024 8:48 pm by Julian Whybra

» The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snake
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 9:36 am by Hobbes

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm by cmeghen

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965

» No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South Africa
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves

» Sickness among Crealock's men
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny

» Brevet Major W.R.B. Chamberlin
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1

» Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th Regiment
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyWed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965

» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra

» John Robert Dunn
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th

» An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

» Writing advice
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
May 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
  12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
2728293031  
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The missing five hours.
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
Matthew Turl
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
Hobbes
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
John Young
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
ADMIN
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
Stefaan
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
General Gordon
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_leftGabangaye - was he ubidied? BarGabangaye - was he ubidied? Bar_right 
New topics
» Smith's Store/Hotel
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue May 14, 2024 7:17 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Zulu "Corps"
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat May 04, 2024 6:50 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

» Fairlie's Native Police
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu May 02, 2024 1:01 pm by Hobbes

» The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snake
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen

Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Gabangaye - was he ubidied?

Go down 
+2
littlehand
quint
6 posters
AuthorMessage
quint




Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-11-15

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Nov 03, 2011 4:46 pm

On the Wiki Isandlwana site it says that probably the last to fall at Isandlwana was Gabangaye, a amacHunu chief who was given over to the udibi boys to be killed by them.
Grisly stuff. First time I have heard of this. Anyone shed any light on it?
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Nov 03, 2011 8:24 pm

Quint.

Click Here
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3966
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 8:11 am

Gabangaye kaPhakade of the amaCunu (i.e. the induna in Barry's coy) can be found in ZV.  Lock & Quantrill provide modern-day oral history as the source to describe how he and his son Mbojana were killed by uDibi boys once taken prisoner.
Note that this is NOT contemporary oral history collected at or close to the time and is therefore highly suspect.  It may not be taken as fact.
Littlehand has already provided you with the only contemporary reference to him at Isandhlwana given by Sikhota.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1203
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 11:48 am

Hi,

This link was posted on the forum, in response to a similar question/point, from myself, a few months ago

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(sorry I forget by whom!) it has the full part of the section in BSQ that Littlehand has posted above.

Not much more detail. I believe Muziwento/Umsweanto's father had fought at Isandlwana and he (Muziwento/Umsweanto) sneaked on to the field soon after the battle, for a look around.......

Ta

Sime
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 12:01 pm

Hi Simon
I think this is the section you were after. Its the basis of the quotes from L and Q. I would probably disagree with Julian and give it a bit more weight than he has.
It is second hand but the whole article/book has a certain ring of truth about it.

There was present too Usikota,l1 brother of Cetshwayo(15); he saw the Zulu army coming up and cried, CO! Not for me! I'm off! I know those fellows over there. It is just "Coming, come' with them. They are not to be turned aside by any man, and here are we sitting still for all the world like a lot of turkeys!' Then he called to his brother, 'Away! let's away, Ungabangaye, let's make a run for it!' Said Ungabangaye, 'Oh stop a moment just till I see them tackled by the white men!' 'O!' cried Usikota, 'A pleasant stay to you!' He seized his horse and bolted. He escaped through the 'neck,' before the 'impi' encircled the [campV2 Up came the Zulu army and made an end of Ungabangaye.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1203
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 12:50 pm

Thanks Frank

90th is winging his was back from Heathrow to Australia, at the moment...

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 2:38 pm

He may just bump into a couple of cricketers on the way back. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3966
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 3:28 pm

Yes, Frank, it does 'sound' right but so did Mpitimpipiti and Zabange (in parts). Weight doesn't come into it.
You and I have discussed oral history before, its merits and demerits...but at 140 years and no secondary corroboration from someone like Sigcwelegcwele it can only be taken for what it is (despite the renowned oral historical abilities of the Zulu).
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 3:54 pm

Hi Julian, I don't think the comparison with Zabange is fair, as we both know that was a modern composition whereas the Zulu Boy is well dated. Again I would agree to disagree in that it cant be fully discounted because there is no corroboration. If we were to travel that route a great amount of the JS chronicles would have to follow suite, and that as we know is an invaluable second hand or 'as told to' source. So I would still say it has weight as a record of the times just as much as JS recorded conversations and memories.
The whole document just conjures up Zulu life, running away from Gogo, the beatings from the elder, the absolute naughtiness of a young boy.
It works for me on many levels but I do take your point.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3966
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 4:07 pm

Frank, well, maybe not Zabange though that too now is nearly 50 years old.
The John Stuart Archive has age and a scholarly approach on its side and is a different kettle of fish entirely to how, where and when the Gabangaye anecdote (as per L&Q) was obtained...and of course the JSA often corroborates by cross-referencing one Zulu with another.
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior


Posts : 270
Join date : 2017-07-21
Location : San Diego, CA

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 1:49 am

There is another, more credible piece of evidence in Storm and Sunshine in South Africa. Gabangaye was described as older and overweight, having a hard time staying mounted and keeping up during the flight. Seeing his men refused to leave him, he sat down on a rock and refused to move so they could get away. The incident is presented in a pathetic light but I find it rather noble and heroic. Prince Sikhota also has an anecdote in which he says he saw the way things were headed, decided to cut slingload on the crumbling operation, and suggested Gabangaye do the same. The latter refused, saying he wished to see how his men fought.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3966
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 7:29 am

And the sources for the two remarks given in Storm and Sunshine are...?
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 8:32 am

Swinny?
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3966
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Gabangaye - was he ubidied? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Gabangaye - was he ubidied?   Gabangaye - was he ubidied? EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 2:43 pm

Well, written by Rosamond Southey obviously in 1910...but...
Back to top Go down
 
Gabangaye - was he ubidied?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: