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 Nongqai Fort, Eshowe

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John
kwajimu1879
90th
barry
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barry

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PostSubject: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyMon Nov 14, 2011 4:52 am

Does anyone have the original floor plan of this fort.

Barry
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90th

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PostSubject: Nongai Fort , Eshowe .   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyMon Nov 14, 2011 11:49 am

Hi Barry.
Is this the Eshowe fort that W. Wynn helped to design & fortify ? . If so I'm sure it's in a couple of books that
I have but I'm not at home tonight , I dont have any idea how to scan on to the computer , the best I can do is tell
you what book the plan is in and maybe a good samaritan will post it for you . Idea .
cheers 90th.
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyMon Nov 14, 2011 2:25 pm

90th,

The Nongqai Fort was constructed after the Zulu War, it looks like a French Foreign Legion fort, I was last there back in 1991, when it housed some exhibits relating to the Zulu Royal House.

It is some little distance from Warren Wynne's fortified position at the kwaMondi Mission Station.

kwaJimu1879
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barry

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PostSubject: Fort Nongquai, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyMon Nov 14, 2011 7:43 pm


Hi Kwajimu1878 and 90th,

It is the floor plan of the present fort in th towm, also called Fort Eshowe, which Ii would like.
Records show it was built in 1879 and is a sturdy concrete walled structure and still in use today , but not as a fort of course.
The Kwa Mondi fort certainly predated this one and was a ditch/sandbag/rock structure, muck like Forts Pearson or Evelyn.

barry
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90th

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PostSubject: Nongqai Fort , Eshowe.   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyTue Nov 15, 2011 7:44 am

Kwajimu.
Thanks for helping out , much obliged.
cheers 90th.
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John

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyTue Nov 15, 2011 8:51 pm

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Try this.
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyTue Nov 15, 2011 11:00 pm

John,

Sadly the book would be no use for the Fort Nongqai, which they only started to build in 1883, and wasn't finished until the 1890's.

It appears the Nongqai used Fort Curtis, which was on/or near Wynne's fort at the kwaMondi Mission Station, until their own fort and headquarters was completed.

kwaJimu1879
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90th

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PostSubject: Nongai Fort , Eshowe .   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 1:03 am

Hi all .
I looked through '' British Fortifications of the zulu war '' and it isnt in there . I also checked Laband's
book ' Field Guide To The Zulu War ' also not there . A friend has sent me some text on the Fort so I will
post it , also a floor plan but I dont know how to post that , will send it to Graves1879 who will help us out .
cheers 90th. Idea
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90th

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PostSubject: Nongai Fort , Eshowe .   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 1:07 am

Hi All .
As promised , from a friend .

Fort Nongqai is now more usually given as Fort Nongqayi - if you google it as such you'll find quite a few photos on the internet. It was built in 1883 and 1884 to provide a barracks for the Nongqayi, the Zululand Native Police which were raised at that time as a bodyguard to Sir Melmoth Osborne, the Resident Commissioner of Zululand, who had been stationed in Eshowe since 1881. A plan of the fort appears in a booklet on the Nongqayi written by Dr Tony Cubbin and available for a time at the fort. The Nongqayi took part in the disturbances resulting from the Zulu Civil War of 1883-84, in the Dinuzulu Rebellion of 1888, the Anglo-Boer War and 1906 Bambatha Rebellion, but the fort itself was never attacked. It now houses the Zululand Historical Museum and has a number of interesting exhibits both on the Nongqayi, the Zulu kings and Chief John Dunn. There were two other forts in Eshowe - KwaMondi, built by Pearson in 1879 and allowed to fall into disrepair at the end of the war, and Fort Curtis, which was also an earthwork, and was the base for the garrison of British regular troops in the 1880s.
cheers 90th.
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 7:33 am

Hi All

From 90th Friend

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http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
90th

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PostSubject: Nongqai Fort , Eshowe .   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 7:49 am

Hi 1879Graves.
Thanks mate for posting the photograph for me . :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Fort Nongqai, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 9:16 am

Hi all,
Thanks to all of you who hunted for this floor plan.
Rather than solving the mystery, it poses more questions as this floor plan does not look like either one appearing in Laband and Thompson's "War in Zululand". I suspect the plan on page 47 given by L & T is the Kwa Mondi one and page 46 looks like the one existing today.
What is implied however is that there was a major rebuild and change of the design at some stage in its life, on the present site.

barry


Last edited by barry on Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 9:30 am

Barry,

Which edition of Laband & Thompson are you referring to? I think I've got all of them so I could cross-reference them.

I think I've got an engraving somewhere of Fort Curtis in Eshowe, where the Nongqai were posted until their own fort was completed. I wonder if that's where you are after?

There's a good photograph of the entrance Fort Nongqai shown on the AMAFA site
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kwaJimu1879
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barry

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PostSubject: Fort Nongqai, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyWed Nov 16, 2011 10:37 am

Hi Kwajimu1879,
Thanks for your reply and offer to settle this one.
My JPC Laband and PS Thompson is titled Field Guide to the War in Zululand and the defence of Natal., 1879.
It was printed in 1983 by the University of Natal Press.
What is coming out of all of this is that these forts were known by different names at different tiimes. This in itself is causing confusion.
regards and thanks,

barry
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90th

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PostSubject: Nongqai Fort , Eshowe .   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyThu Nov 17, 2011 4:45 am

Hi Barry.
From a friend of mine . Hope this will clear it up for you , once and for all .

[url=the forts were not know by different names at different times - there were three different and distinct forts - KwaMondi (the first one, built in 1879, sometimes called Fort Eshowe as it was the only fort in existence at that time). Then Fort Curtis, then Fort Nongqayi. They are built at three different spots around Eshowe - they do not overlap. The Laband and Thompson Field Guide only considers 1879 forts, so it is looking at KwaMondi as the other two did not exist at that time. This fort had been abandoned and was in disrepair long before Forts Curtis and Nongqayi were built. There is some information on these two in Laband's 'Atlas of the Later Zulu Wars'. Fort Nongqayi stands today pretty much as it was in the 1880s, the trenches of KwaMondi fort can be seen on the other side of town whilst nothing remains at all of Fort Curtis, which stood somewhere where the Eshowe Sports Club now is.
cheers 90th.
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barry

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PostSubject: Fort Yolland   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyThu Nov 17, 2011 9:31 am


Hi 90th,

Many thanks to you and your friend for finding the necessary on Nongqai Fort.

Taking another long shot, do you perhaps have a "floor plan/layout" and grid co-ords for Fort Yollond, near Ntumeni. Grid cords will save a lot of sweat tramping around looking for it.
I know this fort was extensively used post 1879, but not too sure how much in 1879.

barry
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyThu Nov 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Barry,



The 1983 copy is the blue one correct?

The one edition I can't find in my study at present! Sorry!

Here's the Fort at the kwaMondi Station Station design by Captain Warren Wynne, R.E., this was the fort that was in use in 1879.

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Plan taken from The Narrative of Field Operations...

Fort Yollond dates from 1885, when it was built by the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders under the supervision of Lieutenant William Yolland (Jr.), R.E. According to J.L. Smail it is situated on the Eshowe/Nkandla road at Esungulweni.

kwaJimu1879
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barry

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PostSubject: Nongqai Fort   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyThu Nov 17, 2011 2:14 pm


Hi Kawjimu1879,

Thanks for reply.
Yes, my copy of Laband is the blue one and the attached plan kindly sent by you appears there on page 46 as Fort Etshowe. This looks like the present day structure.
Running concurrently with this I am also looking to locate the exact site of Fort Yollond. Maybe 90th has the answer. It is a pity that Laband did not put grid references in.

thanks,

barry
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90th

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PostSubject: Nongqai Fort , Eshowe .   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyThu Nov 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Hi Barry .
Cant add to much , a friend sent me the following ; Ft Yolland , lies halfway between Eshowe & Nkandla , according to Laband's
' Atlas Of The Later Zulu Wars ' was built in july 1884 . It was garrisoned on & off during the disturbances of the 1880's , and there
was a post there in 1906 during the Bambatha Rebellion .
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyFri Aug 29, 2014 6:55 am

Hi Barry,

Did you find the plans of the Eshowe Fort?
It appears that the plans indicated do not mesh up with the pictures of the fort
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PostSubject: Fort Nongqai , Near Eshowe    Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyFri Aug 29, 2014 7:06 am

Hi Christie
Barry was actually after the plans of Fort Nongqai which we'll say is near Eshowe , and not to be confused with the Fort which was built at Eshowe and occupied during the AZW of 1879 . Those plans of Fort Nongqai are actually posted earlier in this thread .
Cheers 90th
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptyFri Aug 29, 2014 8:56 pm

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Fort Nongqai

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Source: Enongqai Publication
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90th

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PostSubject: Fort Nongqai    Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 3:29 am

I'll send Les some pics of what it looked like back in April this year . Hopefully when Les has the time he'll post them for us . Salute Salute
Cheers 90th agree
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 12:23 pm

Always got the time for you mate!.
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 12:55 pm

It always reminds me of the fort at the end of The Naked Prey, when Cornel Wilde finally outpaces Ken Gampu.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:08 pm




Great film.
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:17 pm

From the 90th...

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:19 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:21 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:23 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:24 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:26 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:26 pm

Les,

The Run of the Arrow meets Grandier's story!

Plus Adendorff's in it!

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:28 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:30 pm

JY, the run of the arrow, yes yes, but Adendorff? c'mon mate spill!.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:35 pm

Les,

Look at the cast and character Man 2 and you've got your answer.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:38 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:46 pm

Thanks JY. i really am quite thick at times, i was looking
for a descendant of Adendorff..some interesting names there,
Ken Gampu.. Frere's emissary in ZD?
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:48 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:50 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:52 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySat Aug 30, 2014 4:55 pm

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Thanks for sharing mate.
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PostSubject: Fort Nongqai , near Eshowe    Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySun Aug 31, 2014 8:41 am

Thanks Les for taking the time to post the pics of Ft Nongqai , the second last photo is Furniture that once belonged to John Dunn . Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Nongqai Fort, Eshowe   Nongqai Fort, Eshowe EmptySun Aug 31, 2014 3:32 pm

Yes Dunn's furniture gives a good impression of his
relative vast wealth, mid victorian expensive pieces.
a little bit of England/Scotland in the middle of Zulu
land, little wonder he attracted so much snobbery
and jealousy..except when they were partaking of
his generosity and hospitality..
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