Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle. Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.
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Subject: Zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:39 pm
Is it actually known how long the Zulus were hidden in the valley near Isandlwana. Were patrols of the area including the valley checked prior to the coloum moving to Isandlwana or was the whole surrounding area completely left un- checked. Is it possible that the Zulus were receiving intelligence from the British side
Drummer Boy 14
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 25
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:44 pm
The britts had no idea that the Army was there, Lord C didn't check in that direction.
14 Zulu horsemen were seen on the 21st by Chelsmford but he failed to work out there sigificance.
I think the Zulus arrived at the valley on the evening of the 21st
Cheers
Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:06 pm
Quote :
I think the Zulus arrived at the valley on the evening of the 21st
I think they were there days before. I cannot see how 20,000 + Zulus carrying all manner of equipment can get to that valley 5 Miles away without being heard. Absolutely impossible.
90th
Posts : 10657 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 66 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:12 pm
Hi Chard1879. The zulu army didnt leave Ulundi till the 17th and they were told to take their time , which they did , so they werent there for days as you think . You seem to have the same mindset as the Headquarters staff :lol!: , they didnt think it possible that an army of that size could stay so well hidden or not be seen approaching the column ! . Hence the result of the 22nd Jan . cheers 90th. :lol!:
90th
Posts : 10657 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 66 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:24 pm
Hi Impi . The zulu army arrived on the night / evening of the 20th . From Zulu Rising . cheers 90th.
Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:57 pm
I still have my own personal doubts that actually happened. I just trying to visualise how long the Zulu line would have been from start to finish. I also believe cattle was taken with them and I can't see how they could have kept them quite. Of course they could have gathered over a period of days prior to the attack. But not all at once.
90th
Posts : 10657 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 66 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:43 pm
Hi Chard1879 . Dont get me wrong , you can and are entitled to believe or think what you want , but the facts are there for all to see . The army didnt leave Ulundi till the 17th and this is fact not fiction . Fact , they arrived on the night or evening of the 20th . Ntshingwayo sent for Matshana ordering him to bring his forces to meet up with the main army , Matshana concurred willingly and on the evening of the 21st , he and his forces left the Mangeni Valley moving towards Siphezi where the army had camped the night before on the 20th. When they arrived however , they found the army had gone !. Ntshingwayo had already ordered the amabutho forward leading them on a course which avoided the British Foray to his left and instead took them a lot CLOSER to Isandlwana . Again dont get me wrong , but your thinking is exactly what those in command of the third column were no doubt thinking as well . Hence , the result of 22nd Jan . cheers 90th.
ciscokid
Posts : 187 Join date : 2010-02-04
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:45 pm
Chard1879 wrote:
I still have my own personal doubts that actually happened. I just trying to visualise how long the Zulu line would have been from start to finish. I also believe cattle was taken with them and I can't see how they could have kept them quite. Of course they could have gathered over a period of days prior to the attack. But not all at once.
I doubt that they would have marched, more like in a mob, like in Zulu Dawn.
If it's misty (like it was at night), sound doesn't travel far.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8395 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:50 am
90th is right, sorry Chard the evidence is pretty strong.
The valley is not right next to the camp, its a long haul across the plateau to get to it, 4 to 4.5 kilometres. The chance of cattle being heard from that valley are very very remote As an attempt to work out the length of the column try the column as being 10 abreast, with each column being approx 8000 men and a row taking up say 1.5 metres, ergo 8000/10*1.5= 1.2 kilometres as a maximum. Thats a lot of Zulu.
Cisko The army marched in two columns but in line of sight. The zulus on the march are pretty disciplined in their formation. A brilliant illustration of an impi on the move is the front cover of David Jacksons book.
Regards
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:55 am
Night 20/21 January Main Zulu army encamped on the eastern slopes of Siphezi Mountain.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:09 am
Hi all
The 21 st,the zulu army had split into small groups,so as to be less conspicuous ,and had moved into the Ngwebeni valley.This had a dangerous movement ,for the country was largely open,and at one point a British patrol from the camp had almost blundered into them,but had been driven off by Zibhebhu's scouts, without realising the significance of the encounter.The army had spent the night of the 21st in the valley quietly,lighting no cooking fires for fear of detection...
Cheers
Pascal
Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:41 pm
Quote :
The army didnt Ulundi till the 17th and this is fact not fiction
source please.
Drummer Boy 14
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 25
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:44 pm
[/quote] source please. [/quote]
Chard
Its mentioned in about every book on Isandlwana
Cheers
90th
Posts : 10657 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 66 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: zulu hiding in the valley Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:44 pm
Hi Chard1879. DB is correct , its in nearly all books on Isandlwana , grab one of your's and you will see it for yourself . :study: cheers 90th.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:05 am
Hi all
is well known, is one of the few things of course, as the dates of battles ...
Cheers
Pascal
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:25 am
Today, the great impi will advance to the eastern slopes of the hill Siphezi located within 20 miles Isandhlwana ...
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:22 am
Chard1879
Please :study: the topic "January 17.1879 ..." This way you know where are the brave Zulu until Sunday ...
Cheers
Pascal
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8395 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:52 am
The biggest source of all...........Cetshwayo in his interviews in Cape Town Castle.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: Zulu hiding in the valley Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:13 am
Springbok9
You are a living encyclopedia, the librarian of the forum, well done and felicitations...