Zulu Dawn:“Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
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I just picked this tunic up recently and it has a name tag in the collar, which reads " Lt. Fowler 24th ". I was inquiring about his name, but apparently he doesn't appear on the rosters. Any chance that this is a real tunic? Also, did other British Regiments wear the green facing on the collar and cuff areas? If so, what regiment would it be? The tunic's interior shows heavy signs of wear in the collar and armpit areas. I have attached some photos for your viewing. Any help would be appreciated. regards, Grant [left]
ADMIN
Posts : 4242 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 62 Location : KENT
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:11 am
Posts : 10326 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 65 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: British / Colonial Uniforms , Weapons ; 24th Tunic Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:38 am
The 1st and 2nd / 24th were the only regiments to have that collar Badge . On further investigation although I'm not an expert on Collar Badges it doesnt look right to me ! cheers 90th.
Last edited by 90th on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
John
Posts : 2557 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 59 Location : UK
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:43 am
tormar9496. Thanks for the photos.
1879graves
Posts : 3190 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:58 am
Hi Grant
Many thanks for the photographs. From the uniform, it is not Zulu War but a lot later.
Your mans name was Hugh Griffith Coke Fowler
Last edited by 1879graves on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
1879graves
Posts : 3190 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts : 10326 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 65 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: British / Colonial Uniforms , Weapons ; 24th Tunic Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:10 pm
Happy to be corrected but the collar badge on the tunic certainly looks like the middle part of the glengarry badge that sits above the numerals 24 , I found two other collar badges and they arent the same as the one on this tunic . One was in Christopher Wilkinson - Latham's book , the other in Isandlwana by Laband & Mathews .
This does look like a 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment tunic. However, look at the button on the rank epaulette, it would appear that it shows a 'Buffs' (Royal East Kent) regimental button, but this may be a replacement for one that was lost. The label says Lt, however, the pips are for a captain (maybe promoted after issue and another pip added). Searching some time back, I found that the facing colour is said to be grass green, maybe the colours have altered with age. It does look genuine, but I wonder if it could have been made for a prop or a re-enactor some time back. 90th is right, the collar dog is indeed for the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment of foot, a female Sphinx on a tablet inscribed with EGYPT. Well worth keeping hold of and doing some further research.
The swb did keep the old 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiments sphinx, so the button on the epaulette must be a swb button rather than a 'Buffs' one (they are very similar). Whoever wrote '24th' on the label shouldn't have done though, the regimental numbers had been discontinued in July 1881, meaning that the last infantry regiment to be officially numbered the 24th was the 2nd Warwickshire regiment, the label should have said swb and not 24th, as the swb was never numbered.
1879graves
Posts : 3190 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:45 pm
Hi Mr M. Cooper
I agree with your comments
Quote :
the regimental numbers had been discontinued in July 1881
But this is just an explanation to the possible reason why they wrote the number 24 on the tunic. As you can see from the following taken from the 1904 Army list. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
It was still known as the 24th Regimental District.
Yes, I can well imagine that the old numbers would carry on for quite a while and still be used unofficially, and this may be the case with the tunic, but the swb were never the 24th, as they were never officially a numbered regiment, they were just simply the swb. The last infantry regiment to officially be numbered the 24th foot/regiment, was the 2nd Warwickshire regiment.
tasker224
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 54 Location : North London
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:30 pm
Good work Graves! I would agree that the tunic is probably genuine issue, it looks like the real thing and is too good quality to have been manufactured as a costume piece. But over the years, it has almost certainly been altered and tinkered with, for use as a stage prop or some such use. Or, been very, very, badly restored by a collector who didn't know what they were doing.
littlehand
Posts : 7077 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 53 Location : Down South.
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:00 pm
Lucy Powys, eldest dau. of Joseph Richard Cobb, Esq.,F.S.A., of Caldicot Castle, Monmouthshire, who d. 1897, by Emily Catherine Powys, who d. 1900, youngest daughter of the late John Parry de Winton, Esq., of Maesderwen, Breconshire; ni. 1884 Henry Oxenford Aveline Mayberry, Esq., of Glanddwr, Major ret., late 1st Vol.Batt. S. Wales Borderers, V.D., who d. 1906, leaving a son, Richard Aveline, M.C. (with Bar), Lieut. 21st Lancers and temp. Capt. R. Flying Corps ; b. 1895, and killed in action 1917 and a daughter, Muriel Powya Avelin, to. 1912 Major Hugh Griffith Coke Fowler, D.S.O., S. Wales Borderers, and has, with other issue,
tasker224
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 54 Location : North London
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:13 pm
LH, where do you find this stuff? excellent work.
tormar9496
Posts : 9 Join date : 2011-10-17
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:39 am
Everyone,
Thank you for all of the help and valuable information about Capt. Fowler. Can someone explain why you think that it is a costume piece? The gentleman that I acquired the tunic from had it in his possession for many years and assured me that it is exactly how he obtained it. I do agree that the additional two pips on each shoulder board was added at some point as, then, Lt. Fowler received promotions. I have seen this done on other American and German uniforms from WWI and WWII, so I do not have any problems with it, but if there is some other signs on the tunic which is not correct, then please point them out.
I have other items which I would also like to show for your viewing. I will send the pics to the admin for uploading. Once again, I appreciate everyone's help, opinion, and information. Regards, Grant
tasker224
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2010-07-30 Age : 54 Location : North London
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:13 pm
The addition of extra incorrect badges, medal ribbons etc in order to embellish a uniform could be a sign that during its lifetime it has had to endure a little but of Gilbert and sullivan at some stage.
tormar9496
Posts : 9 Join date : 2011-10-17
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:30 am
Everyone,
Peter, the Admin, placed my additional pictures in the members collections section. Please take a look and let me know if you see any red flags. I especially would like to know about everyone's thoughts on the 1877 pattern Officers pith helmet. Regards, Grant
ADMIN
Posts : 4242 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 62 Location : KENT
Subject: Re: 24th Tunic? Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:08 am
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