WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Zulu Dawn Lt. Melvill: “We come here by the orders of the Great Queen Victoria, Queen of all Africa.”
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» 24th Regiment Pioneers
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyYesterday at 6:20 pm by ADMIN

» Henry Berry
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 7:35 pm by gardner1879

» Devon Connection.
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 5:34 pm by 1879graves

» Sir Lionel McMahon 58th Regiment.
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 4:55 pm by 1879graves

» B Company 1/24th Regimental Records
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 4:08 pm by gardner1879

» Return from Zululand Private LETHBRIDGE and Corporal BERRY
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 5:00 am by Celticphred

» Alexander Gordon Cumming Skene.
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 7:53 pm by 1879graves

» Could it have been an even bigger disaster?
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jul 22, 2021 8:46 am by Frank Allewell

» New Book with Zulu War Connection
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyMon Jul 19, 2021 6:06 am by 90th

» ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 18, 2021 2:30 pm by aussie inkosi

» The Zulu dead at Isandlwana
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyFri Jul 16, 2021 5:05 pm by SRB1965

» J Brazier 1/24 foot 1877 - 78 bar
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyFri Jul 16, 2021 6:47 am by 90th

» New Members Welcome.
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jul 15, 2021 8:53 am by Drummer Boy 14

» Zululand population 1879?
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyMon Jul 12, 2021 7:44 pm by Altamont

» Melvill and Coghill Victoria Cross query
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyMon Jul 12, 2021 6:33 pm by SRB1965

» Yet another Hill of the Sphinx thread
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyMon Jul 12, 2021 6:59 am by 90th

» Zulu War Chess Set
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyFri Jul 09, 2021 10:49 am by Darto

» Joshua Harrod - Which Battles
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jul 08, 2021 5:30 pm by 1879graves

» Zulu War to Boer war. Those who served in both.
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyWed Jul 07, 2021 6:35 pm by Rory Reynolds

» Lance Sergeant Armstrong Victoria Mounted Rifles
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyWed Jul 07, 2021 6:24 pm by Rory Reynolds

» You tube Video "Fredrick Hitch"
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyTue Jul 06, 2021 11:53 am by aussie inkosi

» Prince Imperial visited
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyMon Jul 05, 2021 1:47 am by 90th

» Isandlwana Casualty - John William Jones Davies
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jul 04, 2021 10:50 am by ADMIN

» Colonel W. P. Collingwood
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyWed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 pm by John Young

» (Lieut: R. F. Westmacott. 77th. Foot.)
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyTue Jun 22, 2021 10:35 pm by ADMIN

» HARRY WILLIAM DAVIS,
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyMon Jun 21, 2021 6:49 am by aussie inkosi

» 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jun 20, 2021 2:23 am by 90th

» Civilian Surgeon W.J. Cobbin
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyFri Jun 18, 2021 4:00 am by Frank Allewell

» Midshipman Coker photo
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 17, 2021 8:40 pm by ADMIN

» Battle of Rorke's Drift memorabilia
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyTue Jun 15, 2021 12:35 pm by John Young

» Lost Fortifications
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jun 13, 2021 4:51 pm by Richie Rich

» Isolated Graves in Zululand
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptySun Jun 13, 2021 4:48 pm by Richie Rich

» Isandlwana Bugle
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyWed Jun 09, 2021 2:53 pm by Richie Rich

» Lambert, James Drummond (1835 - 3/3/1905)
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyWed Jun 09, 2021 7:26 am by John Young

» Time capsule back to the sphinx mountain
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyTue Jun 08, 2021 3:25 pm by timothylrose

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Walking the battlefield of Kambula
Top posters
90th
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
littlehand
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
ADMIN
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
1879graves
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
rusteze
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
John
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
90th
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
gardner1879
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
SRB1965
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Celticphred
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
1879graves
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
ADMIN
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
grungysquash
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Altamont
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_leftThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding BarThe Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Bar_right 
Most active topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.1
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
horse taylor martini George smith henry john Prince Forbes james Police Durnford spalding drift carbineers zulu payne Natal Woolfryes Mounted Isandlwana Franklin Russell melvill harford 24th
 

 The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding

Go down 
AuthorMessage
MadDrDevo

MadDrDevo

Posts : 41
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 46
Location : Ft Lauderdale Fl

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 4:13 pm

Ok first i dont want to hear anything about how the movie is inaccurate, i dont care and that is not the point. I know it is, and i know that the portrayal of hook in the film is incorrect and i know all about welsh conspiracies to steal englands honor.. if that is what you want to contribute do it else where.

I want to help you all understand the character in the framework of the film and in film making because frankly The character of Hook is the most well rounded character in the film and the only that has a discernible development and arc.

A good character will have a struggle to undergo outside the main struggle of the film, in Zulu the shared struggle is obviously the battle, but Hook struggles with his soul.
Now look at a film like the godfather. the #1 movie on the AFI top 100 movies. The character of micheal corleone(al pacino) he struggles with the family in the main struggle but also has his inner demons to work on, he doenst want to be the leader but he must, he tries to distance himself but cannot. that is what makes him a great character. how dull would the movie have been had he been like sonny(james caan) and gung ho about everything, .. well you get scar face i guess. Point is a good character changes and grows through the course of the movies events or he is just a stuffed shirt and a stereotype

The theme they are attmepting to show with hook is redemption through heroism. Of all the characters in the film he is the only one who is changed for the better by the events in the film, indeed he is the only one that really changes. The "tomorrow" that will come will find everyone but hook doing the same things he did "yesterday" Hook goes from being a poor soldier to being a hero.


There are several points that bear this out and it is in his defense of the hospital that hooks character undergoes his change. It is also here that hook goes through the only wardrobe change in the whole film, he puts on his tunic.
In film there are often symbolic changes made to the appearance of character to show the internal changes. The film the royal tennabaums shows this a lot as the characters dress in rather silly clothing the whole movie, their outfits are generally impractical. In that film Luke wilsons character has a break down, it includes him shaving off his trademark hair and beard and finally taking off his tennis outfit(he was a champion tennis player) and at that point he never puts in on and his character is changed.. The same type of symbolism is used here.

This happens just after the whole "Im excused duty" "well i havent excused you" exchange. He takes his rifle, saves his friend and says something like"well youve done it know" hops off the bunk and begins to act like the hero

From this moment on he ceases to be the malingering hector surgeon reynolds calls him. He starts acting like a hero, killing the zulu that break in, he leads the men out, he is the one that notices that the zulu broke in the hallway and they need to go through the walls. He is shown as the last man through the wall and then Maxfield.

Maxfield is a real turning point, he is going to leave him, he is about to back through the hole in the wall, he is about to fall back to his old behaviour.. however he doesnt. he goes back for maxfield. During the fight in the room with just maxfield and hook, maxfield is shouting postiive things at hook. And he is the one who offers hook his redemption. He says "ive made a soldier of you now" and he has. Even though hook fails to save maxfield, maxfield has given hook his shot at redemption.
After that we see him kill a lot more zulus at the hole and back out. Then he does the most (in)famous thing in the whole film. He breaks into the liquor and drinks it.
This is probably the most beautiful scene in the whole movie and certainly the best acted.
if you look closely you see that hook is crying. He isnt drinking because he is a drunk, he is drinking to maxfield. He is drinking a farewell to the man that redeemed him.
The last time we see hook is when he is watching at night for the zulu to come. He is still then mourning maxfield and wondering if "that was the way he wanted it" he is haunted by this

He is a changed man after the events of the film. Yes many are dead and maimed(and certainly that would count as a drastic change) however they are not changed as characters.

Chard- possibly negativly effected by the outcome of the battle, certainly being called "butcher" by reynolds is his big aha moment in the film, but he doesnt change much, he is still the capable soldier he was when he got to Rorkes drift

Bromhead.. also changes, but since his character is a caricature his change is rather cartoonish. Obviously he is a foppish privileged officer, spoiled rich, that sort of thing. all the things wrong with the purchase system. he is like this to help the theme that an educated man is better than the privileged man. So at the end of the movie his foppish ideals of war and his victorian daydream is shattered. But he will still go on and fight

Bourne.. also a caraciture of the RSM. if this were a movie filmed about american marines he would have been played by R Lee Ermy. though i have to say Nigel Green as Hercules in Jason and Argonaughts was pretty slick

Other characters like hitch and allen have a combined arc where they need each other and to a lesser degree the redemtiion theme is played out here. you see hitch the "slovenly soldier" become the helpful soldier. his change is not as extreme as hooks as hook starts and ends at opposite ends of the spectrum, Hitch tends to stay pretty steady (hook is the man with no interest in the army who becomes the super soldier, and hitch is the regular soldier who struggles on despite his wounds.. similar but different stories)



So while the hook character is the most maligned because of his divergence from the real man, i say that the charcter is the best written and acted in the film. he is certainly the character that i was most interested in as a young person and as i mentioned else where if it werent for this portrayal capturing the popular imagination Hooks name would be like any of the other people who won a VC and you cant name with out looking at a list, and even if you can you have nothing for your imagination to latch onto to make him stand out.

Here we are 120+ uears after the battle and we are talkling about HOOK and not allen, or hitch or any of the others. and that should be remembered too.



Thanks for listening i hope that this will help you understand the film industry and how it works and why sometimes for the sake of the story things have to change.

I can also say that none of you knew hook or his family or friends. I have seen Black Hawk done and get to watch a person i went to high school with die everytime. They combined him with another person because they needed to. and i wasnt as offended as you guys get about hooks portrayal. someone needs to explain that to me
Back to top Go down
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 41

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 7:22 pm

The problem is in how he was portrayed in the film. Perhaps they should have done some research first on his real character. But I know what you mean about it just being a film. But it did cause some up- set to his familey members.
Back to top Go down
MadDrDevo

MadDrDevo

Posts : 41
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 46
Location : Ft Lauderdale Fl

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 7:27 pm

impi wrote:
The problem is in how he was portrayed in the film. Perhaps they should have done some research first on his real character. But I know what you mean about it just being a film. But it did cause some up- set to his familey members.

there is no problem with how he is portrayed in the film as this is not billed as a biopic of henry hook.
this is just like with movies like the alamo, or any movie about general custer.. its about telling an OVERALL story that doesnt really have a basis in fact.. does that make more sense?

and i mentioned that, and i also mentioned it was totally irrelevant to what i am discussing. there is NOTHING wrong with the way they handled that character they have every right, when creating historical fiction, to use those parts they want and leave out those they do not, that get in the way of the story.. why is the only movie you guys have this problem with?
Back to top Go down
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 41

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 7:53 pm

Sorry don't agree. There is a problem and that's why there has been many a discussion on this subject.
Back to top Go down
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 41

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 9:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
MadDrDevo

MadDrDevo

Posts : 41
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 46
Location : Ft Lauderdale Fl

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 9:56 pm

impi wrote:
Sorry don't agree. There is a problem and that's why there has been many a discussion on this subject.

its not for you to agree or disagree its not a matter open to discussion, you understand that. .there is no character assassination(nice spelling in that article, i generally dont post ones with obvious spelling errors in the title though)
you have to actually be ging out to tell people the story of the REAL MAN, and no one was doing that. that was never the intent, the intent was to tell a story.

if we followed what you believe we can have NO historical fiction EVER. because as soon as you fictionalize ANYTHING, even if its just dialogue (which is tough since rarely do we have transcripts of peoples conversations) will fall under this thinking..
so historical movies can only be 100% accurate with dialogue that was actually spoken? we will have a LOT of silent movies since we in the few cases we know what people said on a battle field it was not what everyone was thinking.

people who wish to be willfully ignorant can claim that we have no right to do that, but we do, and its a fact of life.


If you would like please find me the names of movies that are 100% accurate and portray everyone in the bestmost accurate light.. please do.. i will wait while you all look, i wont hold my breath though.

Back to top Go down
MadDrDevo

MadDrDevo

Posts : 41
Join date : 2012-03-22
Age : 46
Location : Ft Lauderdale Fl

The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding   The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding EmptyThu Jun 21, 2012 10:02 pm

MadDrDevo wrote:
impi wrote:
Sorry don't agree. There is a problem and that's why there has been many a discussion on this subject.

its not for you to agree or disagree its not a matter open to discussion, you understand that. .




that sound much more harsh than it should. i mean its not like we can debate it and make an effective change to it. this is how the industry works and it works in books too.
i mean have you guys ever read the Flashman series of books? everyone in those books is a dirty messed up version of what they were in real life. those books, while very accurate on some things, play VERY fast and loose, especially with the morality of those people.. why because it makes a more compelling story
Back to top Go down
 
The Character of Hook, in the Film Zulu.. a deeper understanding
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: