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 Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War

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Drummer Boy 14
quint
thinredlineMOD
Dave
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Dave

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PostSubject: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyMon Jul 02, 2012 7:22 pm

Click Here A Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War
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thinredlineMOD

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 1:13 am

very interesting. thanks for posting
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 10:23 am

Dave wrote:
Click Here A Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War

Who are these boys dressed in black who died in a tree and were found underneath?
Would these be the band boys under the apparatus for hides?
Would band boys wear black and not scarlet?
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 11:24 am

I guess it's a referece to some troopers from the police or the NC.
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quint




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 8:30 pm

thinredlineMOD wrote:
I guess it's a referece to some troopers from the police or the NC.

Where abouts on the battlefield is it conceivable - bearing in mind their movements - that NMP /NC were in trees?
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 9:58 pm

quint wrote:
thinredlineMOD wrote:
I guess it's a referece to some troopers from the police or the NC.

Where abouts on the battlefield is it conceivable - bearing in mind their movements - that NMP /NC were in trees?
Don't know if it's reasonably possible to determine the state of vegetation back then but if anything it seems there was much less brushes/trees than today. I'd think the most likely places are in the rear of the hill and along fugitives trail.
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 10:04 pm

Most of the police, around 19, were found at the foot of the Stonnie Koppy surrounding Col. Durnford,
Lt. Scott and Capt. Bradstreat.





Cheers
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thinredlineMOD

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 10:23 pm

Which would leave about seven others dying elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 10:29 pm

thinredlineMOD wrote:
Which would leave about seven others dying elsewhere.
Assuming the "tree" in question was the hide-stretching apparatus, similarly to JC's crucifix being referred to as a tree in many texts, would there be any possibility of the band boys wearing black.. I would think not?
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thinredlineMOD

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 10:58 pm

I'm far from being an expert on Victorian era uniforms but I don't think there's any possibility that the band boys would've worn black. And there were quite young boys or young looking men in the colonial units. Trooper Jackson from the NC for example was 16.
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90th

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PostSubject: Zulu Boys Recollections Of The Zulu War    Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jul 04, 2012 4:41 am

Hi All .
I've just read my copy of the ' Natalia ' booklet , I think they may be referring to the Voorloopers or Native bearers / helpers that were employed by either the army or civilian contractors . They certainly arent band boys or any other European type of soldiers in my opinion . You need to study mo
Cheers 90th. Salute
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thinredlineMOD

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jul 04, 2012 10:32 am

Hi 90th,
that you say may be more likely indeed. What I think was confusing is these boys being described as wearing all black. I would've expected some variation in civilian attire or in the case of vorloopers not much clothing at all. I know Cetshwayo seems to have associated civilans with black clothing because of his order to spare their lives. But in fact I've yet to see a contemporary photograph that shows civilians in black except when in quite formal or businesslike situations. (To be fair, I haven't seen that many photos scratch )
Anyways, the boys in question being the band is certainly too far-fetched.

cheers, Salute
Dave
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magolding




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyTue Jun 21, 2022 3:40 am

I don't know what the Zulu boy reported or how exactly his words were translated.

But the "boys" or possibly men he reported was wearing black might posibly have been anyone, depending on his exact words and possible interpretations of them.

As I remember, Zulu men typically wore very little clothing by European standards.  and if this Zulu boy was not a young warrior fighting at Isandlwana but a local boy too young to fight who visited the battle site, he might have been used to wearing less than Zulu men.

So if the Zulu boy mentioned seeing a few (number unspecified as far I know) dead boys or young men lying under a tree, how much clothing would the corpses be wearing, considering that Zulus often stripped off some or all of the clothing of persons they killed.

So each of those reported boys, or the majority of them, would have still been wearing at least one black item of clothing.  Black boots, black socks, black pants, black jackets, black hats, black undershirts, black underpants, black gloves, or whatever other types of garments that persons in the camp at Isandlwana might possibly wear and might possibly be colored black.

And of course not every one of those corpses had to be wearing the same black colored items of clothing, just that the Zulu boy got the impression that all or most of the clothing remaining on them was black.

And was some of that black clothing really black, or was some of it actually very dark blue?  For a long time I thought the red coated soldiers wore black pants with thin red stripes in 1879, but apparently they wore dark blue trowsers with thin red stripes.

So possibly some or all of the corpses reported by the Zulu boy could have been those of soldiers, left wearing only dark blue trowsers which the Zulu boy mistook for black trowsers.  Even if the corpses had been stripped of all other clothing, long pants going from the waists to the ankles might seem very overdressed to a Zulu boy, who thus might not mention that they were not fully clothed by European standards.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jun 29, 2022 2:35 pm

The transcription/translation of what Muziwento kaZibana (Umsweanto) said, stated:
“At daylight we came back again, we saw some boys who had died in a tree, underneath it. They were dressed in black clothes. We saw white men dead (they had taken off their boots, all of them)…”
This Zulu uDibi boy did not say that these boys were Europeans or soldiers. Indeed the sentence which follows would indicate that they were not. The inference is that they were voorloopers or servants.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jun 29, 2022 3:49 pm

On a slightly more gruesome note, congealed/dried blood turns blue/black and with approx 1.2-1.5 gallons per person that is a lot of blood.
Clothing would become saturated and its colour altered
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jun 29, 2022 3:54 pm

Assuming the blood would have had time to congeal...
I don't know but how long does it take to congeal?
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jun 29, 2022 5:37 pm

A few years ago whilst out walking through a small village just west of iSandlwana I came across the spot where I'm assuming a cow or ox had been slaughterd.
For historical/research purposes I took a photo of the bloody remains as I thought it would give an idea of what the ground of the battlefield would have looked like afterwards in that climate.
You will see how black the blood becomes.
Grisly I know but it brought a sense of horror that conflicted strongly with the fluttering colours, pointing drummer boy and gallant sergeant.
I will see if I can find it Julian and send it to you if you want. If you rather I didn't just say.
Its probably best not to put it up on the forum.

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War   Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War EmptyWed Jun 29, 2022 9:42 pm

Kate
I'll take your word for it. It's an interesting point you make though, one that I'd not previously considered, and may well provide the answer to the boys 'dressed in black' quotation.
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