Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin

Guest

Hello to all

What was the uniform worn by the Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin at Rorke's Drift ?

Cheers

Pascal

Guest

No answers for that ?

Posts : 1095 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London

Perhaps because know one knows?

Guest

Let's just say that nobody knows ...

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 60 Location : UK

Have alook around, see if you can find out, then let us know.

Guest

If it continued like this, I'm going to make the same uniform as Bournes for him.

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:10 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:: If it continued like this, I'm going to make the same uniform as Bournes for him.

What I've found out to date Pascal is the following that was worn by other-ranks assigned to General Staffs and Colour-Sergeant Maybin may have worn any of the variations. Thanks to John Young for providing me with the following information............The1stLt

Most of the Staff Corps other-ranks I have seen and it is not many are wearing the other-ranks patrol jackets.Basically it was a patrol jacket of a cheaper make than the officers' pattern with no frogging.However, as we know they wore a tunic or a frock as well, due the find at Isandlwana. I believe that was scarlet with blue collars and cuffs with the Imperial crown worn as the collar badge.

Guest

Ok thank you ...

- And the red stripes on his tunic were the same as those of a colour - Sergeant of the 24 th?

- And his shoulder straps on his red tunic, were the same as those of a colour - Sergeant of the 24 th?

- And his cuff designs on his red tunic, are formed by a white tap braid coming to a point before forming a trefoil knot as those of a colour - Sergeant of the 24 th?

- And his armament and equipment as those of a color - Sergeant of the 24 th? (rifle + ammunition pouches + bayonet)

I have the same problem for the single company pioneer of the British infantry in zululand , uniform, equipment and weapons, ect ...

Cheers

Pascal

Guest

Please person possesses photos or illustrations for the uniformof the Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin to at Rorke's Drift ?

Cheers

Rascal

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:06 pm

Pascal,

This is the uniform I was describing to Joe:

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Sergeant - Gymnastic Instructor, wearing an other-ranks patrol jacket circa 1881.
John Young Collection.

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A Staff Sergeant, wearing an other-ranks patrol jacket, early 1880's
John Young Collection.

The three chevrons and a crown as above would have been the rank insignia as worn by Mabin.

As to weapons and equipment I imagine whatever was available. Mabin's equipment was pen and paper.

I will post the scarlet uniform of sergeant on the Staff along with details of Pioneers' uniform and equipment in another post.

John Y.

Guest

Thank you once again John

As to weapons and equipment I imagine that at RD The Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin took the MH and equipment of a infantryman ...

You'll post the scarlet uniform of a sergeant on the staff along with details of Pioneers' uniform and equipment in Reviews in another post.

This is great! Especially for the uniform of a every single pioneer of each infantry company at Isandhwana...

Pascal

Posts : 10 Join date : 2020-08-05

Bravo Pascal !

Posts : 10 Join date : 2020-08-05

On December 4, 2013, John wrote "I will post the scarlet uniform of sergeant on the Staff along with details of Pioneers' uniform and equipment in another post."

Please John, I would prefer that you do it on this topic, thank you.

But s others can post color illustrations on this topic, thank you.

Pascal Who is back after years of absence ...

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:47 am

The Rascal Returns!

Here are the Pioneers of 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment photographed at Pinetown, Natal, in September 1879.

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(John Young Collection.)

I will see if I can find the Staff Corps photograph over the next few days.

JY

Posts : 10 Join date : 2020-08-05

Hi John,
Yes the Rascal Returns!
Thanks for the photos which are always useful, I would also like to see a color illustration for the uniform worn by the Color - Sergeant George William Mabin at Rorke's Drift, can't even find some illustrations? Thanks.

Cheers

Pascal

Posts : 10 Join date : 2020-08-05

Hi Everyone,

I can't find anything on the internet ... Does anyone have anything in color concerning the uniform of the General Staff Corps 1566 Color-Sergeant George William Mabin?

Cheers,

Pascal

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Sat May 01, 2021 4:19 pm

Pascal,

Let’s be honest we don’t actually know what Chard & Bromhead were wearing during the Defence of Rorke’s Drift, it is pure supposition.

As to Mabin I would speculate that he was wearing an other-ranks patrol jacket as illustrated by my photographs above. Rank insignia would have been three gold chevrons surmounted by a Crown as the second photograph showing the other-ranks patrol jacket.

JY

Posts : 10 Join date : 2020-08-05

John,

Okay, thank you anyway, but it's still weird that there isn't a single color illustration even in a book even in a book for wargamers.

The Rascal

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:10 am

Hi all

I should imagine that whilst on Staff duties they would have continued to wear their Parent Regiments uniform, just as they do today.
Although posted on Staff duties he would still remain a member of the 24th, unless his records say he transferred.

Was there an actual Corps, is there primary source for this? If so, where is the evidence of the Corps?
On Soldiers records, does it state "transferred to the Staff Corps, or just Staff duties.

Today there are "General Staff", always have been through recent history, where they are detached from their parent Regiment, in Whitehall, Horse Guards etc, and continue to wear their regiments uniform.

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:28 am

Eddie,

Colour-Sergeant George Mabin was a non-commissioned officer in the General Staff Corps, consider it to have been the Victorian equivalent of the Adjutant-General’s Corps. Basically they were a unit of clerks, writers and bookkeepers.

The General Staff Corps had their own uniform, rather than the uniforms of their previous regiments or corps. Mabin had previous served in the Rifle Brigade, before joining the General Staff Corps. Their tunic was scarlet with Royal blue facings, with ciphered VR buttons, a blue peaked forage cap. However, as I mentioned above it was not uncommon for them to wear the other-ranks patrol jacket.

JY

Posts : 10 Join date : 2020-08-05

John,

Ok, but it's still weird that there isn't a single color illustration, even in a book for wargamers.

Visitor

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:41 pm

Hi John/Visitors

That's what I am referring to, where is the evidence of this Corps? John you state that there was a General Staff Corps that had their own uniforms, where is your primary source information on this? Or is it just written in a book?
No offence, just that it would be good to know where we could look this up.

Regards Eddie

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:01 pm

Eddie & Rascal,

Try searching for the alternative unit name of the Corps of Military Staff Clerks. Then draw your own conclusions as I’m away from my source material until next week.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_clerk

Best I can say at present.

JY

Subject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:36 pm

Rascal,

This is the photograph that I have identified with the initials G.S.C., which I assume stood for General Staff Corps.
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Sergeant Carson, G.S.C.
(John Young Collection)

It is tunic rather than frock, scarlet with a blue collar. Photographed in Stonehouse, Devon.

Here is a Colour-Sergeant, or, Staff-Sergeant in a blue serge frock with left breast pocket, the same pattern frock as was worn by Army Hospital Corps in 1879.

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Colour or Staff Sergeant in blue serge frock.
(John Young Collection)

If anything I believe it would have been this pattern frock, or non-commissioned officer’s patrol jacket detailed above that was worn.

Further to your query about Mabin’s weapon, in a statement he made later in his life he clearly states that he used a rifle in the action.

Try looking for yet another possible unit name in your wargaming journals that I came across - General Staff of the Army.

JY

» Sergeant 1566 George William Mabin General Staff Corps his Rorkes Drift Account
» Colour Sergeant 1936 William Ledsham 2/4th Regiment
» Colour Sergeant 1681 William McLatter 2/3rd Regiment
» Colour Sergeant William Baxter 436 90th Regt
» Colour Sergeant 1289 William Edwards 1/24th Regiment