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 Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin

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John
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyWed Oct 24, 2012 8:51 am

Hello to all

What was the uniform worn by the Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin at Rorke's Drift ?

Cheers

Pascal
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyFri Nov 09, 2012 9:18 pm

No answers for that ?
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old historian2

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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyFri Nov 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Perhaps because know one knows?
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyFri Nov 09, 2012 9:58 pm

Let's just say that nobody knows ...
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John

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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptySun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Have alook around, see if you can find out, then let us know.
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PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyMon Nov 12, 2012 7:04 am

If it continued like this, I'm going to make the same uniform as Bournes for him.
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyMon Nov 12, 2012 1:10 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
If it continued like this, I'm going to make the same uniform as Bournes for him.

What I've found out to date Pascal is the following that was worn by other-ranks assigned to General Staffs and Colour-Sergeant Maybin may have worn any of the variations. Thanks to John Young for providing me with the following information............The1stLt

Most of the Staff Corps other-ranks I have seen and it is not many are wearing the other-ranks patrol jackets.Basically it was a patrol jacket of a cheaper make than the officers' pattern with no frogging.However, as we know they wore a tunic or a frock as well, due the find at Isandlwana. I believe that was scarlet with blue collars and cuffs with the Imperial crown worn as the collar badge.
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyMon Nov 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Ok thank you ...

- And the red stripes on his tunic were the same as those of a colour - Sergeant of the 24 th?

- And his shoulder straps on his red tunic, were the same as those of a colour - Sergeant of the 24 th?

- And his cuff designs on his red tunic, are formed by a white tap braid coming to a point before forming a trefoil knot as those of a colour - Sergeant of the 24 th?

- And his armament and equipment as those of a color - Sergeant of the 24 th? (rifle + ammunition pouches + bayonet)


I have the same problem for the single company pioneer of the British infantry in zululand , uniform, equipment and weapons, ect ...

Cheers

Pascal
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyWed Dec 04, 2013 7:48 am

Please person possesses photos or illustrations for the uniformof the Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin to at Rorke's Drift ?

Cheers

Rascal
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John Young

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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyWed Dec 04, 2013 9:06 pm

Pascal,

This is the uniform I was describing to Joe:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Sergeant - Gymnastic Instructor, wearing an other-ranks patrol jacket circa 1881.
John Young Collection.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
A Staff Sergeant, wearing an other-ranks patrol jacket, early 1880's
John Young Collection.

The three chevrons and a crown as above would have been the rank insignia as worn by Mabin.

As to weapons and equipment I imagine whatever was available. Mabin's equipment was pen and paper.

I will post the scarlet uniform of sergeant on the Staff along with details of Pioneers' uniform and equipment in another post.

John Y.
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyThu Dec 05, 2013 6:30 am

Thank you once again John

As to weapons and equipment I imagine that at RD The Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin took the MH and equipment of a infantryman ...

You'll post the scarlet uniform of a sergeant on the staff along with details of Pioneers' uniform and equipment in Reviews in another post.

This is great! Especially for the uniform of a every single pioneer of each infantry company at Isandhwana...

Pascal
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Bravo Pascal !
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptySun Apr 11, 2021 10:54 am

On December 4, 2013, John wrote "I will post the scarlet uniform of sergeant on the Staff along with details of Pioneers' uniform and equipment in another post."

Please John, I would prefer that you do it on this topic, thank you.

But s others can post color illustrations on this topic, thank you.

Pascal Who is back after years of absence ...
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John Young

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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 10:47 am

The Rascal Returns!

Here are the Pioneers of 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment photographed at Pinetown, Natal, in September 1879.

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(John Young Collection.)

I will see if I can find the Staff Corps photograph over the next few days.

JY
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 11:07 am

Hi John,
Yes the Rascal Returns!
Thanks for the photos which are always useful, I would also like to see a color illustration for the uniform worn by the Color - Sergeant George William Mabin at Rorke's Drift, can't even find some illustrations? Thanks.

Cheers

Pascal
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptySat May 01, 2021 3:16 pm

Hi Everyone,

I can't find anything on the internet ... Does anyone have anything in color concerning the uniform of the General Staff Corps 1566 Color-Sergeant George William Mabin?

Cheers,

Pascal
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John Young

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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptySat May 01, 2021 4:19 pm

Pascal,

Let’s be honest we don’t actually know what Chard & Bromhead were wearing during the Defence of Rorke’s Drift, it is pure supposition.

As to Mabin I would speculate that he was wearing an other-ranks patrol jacket as illustrated by my photographs above. Rank insignia would have been three gold chevrons surmounted by a Crown as the second photograph showing the other-ranks patrol jacket.

JY
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptySat May 01, 2021 6:15 pm

John,

Okay, thank you anyway, but it's still weird that there isn't a single color illustration even in a book even in a book for wargamers.

The Rascal
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyTue Feb 07, 2023 2:10 am

Hi all

I should imagine that whilst on Staff duties they would have continued to wear their Parent Regiments uniform, just as they do today.
Although posted on Staff duties he would still remain a member of the 24th, unless his records say he transferred.

Was there an actual Corps, is there primary source for this? If so, where is the evidence of the Corps?
On Soldiers records, does it state "transferred to the Staff Corps, or just Staff duties.

Today there are "General Staff", always have been through recent history, where they are detached from their parent Regiment, in Whitehall, Horse Guards etc, and continue to wear their regiments uniform.
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyTue Feb 07, 2023 6:28 am

Eddie,

Colour-Sergeant George Mabin was a non-commissioned officer in the General Staff Corps, consider it to have been the Victorian equivalent of the Adjutant-General’s Corps.  Basically they were a unit of clerks, writers and bookkeepers.

The General Staff Corps had their own uniform, rather than the uniforms of their previous regiments or corps.  Mabin had previous served in the Rifle Brigade, before joining the General Staff Corps.  Their tunic was scarlet with Royal blue facings, with ciphered VR buttons, a blue peaked forage cap. However, as I mentioned above it was not uncommon for them to wear the other-ranks patrol jacket.

JY
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyTue Feb 07, 2023 1:37 pm

John,

Ok, but it's still weird that there isn't a single color illustration, even in a book for wargamers.

Visitor
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyTue Feb 07, 2023 2:41 pm

Hi John/Visitors

That's what I am referring to, where is the evidence of this Corps? John you state that there was a General Staff Corps that had their own uniforms, where is your primary source information on this? Or is it just written in a book?
No offence, just that it would be good to know where we could look this up.

Regards Eddie
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyTue Feb 07, 2023 6:01 pm

Eddie & Rascal,

Try searching for the alternative unit name of the Corps of Military Staff Clerks.  Then draw your own conclusions as I’m away from my source material until next week.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_clerk

Best I can say at present.

JY
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Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin   Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin EmptyWed Feb 08, 2023 9:36 pm

Rascal,

This is the photograph that I have identified with the initials G.S.C., which I assume stood for General Staff Corps.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Sergeant Carson, G.S.C.
(John Young Collection)

It is tunic rather than frock, scarlet with a blue collar. Photographed in Stonehouse, Devon.

Here is a Colour-Sergeant, or, Staff-Sergeant in a blue serge frock with left breast pocket, the same pattern frock as was worn by Army Hospital Corps in 1879.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Colour or Staff Sergeant in blue serge frock.
(John Young Collection)

If anything I believe it would have been this pattern frock, or non-commissioned officer’s patrol jacket detailed above that was worn.  

Further to your query about Mabin’s weapon, in a statement he made later in his life he clearly states that he used a rifle in the action.

Try looking for yet another possible unit name in your wargaming journals that I came across - General Staff of the Army.

JY
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