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 Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem

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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 3:35 pm

I recently bought a Mark I/II Martini Henry. The block lever comes up to far out of the top of the block and gets jammed. The trigger assembly is also loose. When I cock the gun it tightens up. Does anybody know what the problem is and how to solve it?

Thank You
Mason Howse
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2009-04-24

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 3:42 pm

Neil's your man, you can drop him a PM or Email him from this forum.

Contacts details in this link: https://www.1879zuluwar.com/t1230-original-martini-henry-mk2-rifles


Or though his own website: http://www.martinihenry.org/
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 3:46 pm

Thank You, I will try contacting Neil.

Mason Howse
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tasker224

tasker224

Posts : 2102
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Age : 54
Location : North London

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 10:43 pm

Let us know how you get on Cmdr Howse Salute
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 11:57 am

CH

Where did you acquire it from?,

It sounds like the load height is too great. This is normally a fault of a) the horns of the lever being too long or b) the breech block of a non ordnance martini being fitted, these tend to be slightly shorter, as such instances the block face should bearing agaanst the chamber rim when closed and there should only be <10 thou " clearance, if the block is too small it will skip past that point, on dropping, the block will then jam beind the vertical claws of the extractor and wegde, it can't come up, or go down.

All Ordnance blocks are interchangeable and known as the pattern 74", commonly there is three patterns, the 74' for the Mk1/2 rifle, which should fit every time. In 1879 the MkIII pattern 74' block was introduced, it was made wider to eliminate play, and had a new firing pin, but was purposefully designed to be interchangable. The later model will also be a '74 pattern but marked E-M or 1V. These again were designed to be interchangeable but with "tweaks" as your probelms will become compounded if you have a Mk2 block with a Mk1V extractor, Where problems occur, especially if the rifles have originated from places like Afghanistan, the parts got mixed with locally made peices, literally hand made, and they simply don't fit.

In the first instance you need to go onto my website www.martinihenry.org and onto the "video" section, you will see instructional video's how to strip the block and see what you have. theres a video on how to take the block out, also one on load heigh problems.

So I need to you take out the block, and tell me what it has on the side, I would expect a host of markings, tell me what they are and we'll start to get nearer.

If the block is ordance, then its the claw length of the underlever.

enjoy.

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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 1:12 pm

I acquired it form a US Soldier that had brought it back from Afghanistan. It has all British markings and no Afghan markings. The block markings say on the left broad arrow WD inspector mark 21 and 13, then a Proof mark 2P. On the right side it has 152 it could be 162. Hopes this helps. New development, when the breech block gets jammed it seems if I turn the martini upside down it get unjammed.

Thank You
Mason Howse
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
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Location : Loughborough

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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 5:40 pm

Mason

can you take a few pics of the gun and put them on the site, its easy via the weblink.

I ask as 60% of the rifles coming out are 'Ghan identical copies, even down to the proof marks, but there is give-aways and I'll give you an honest appraisal. If you don't want to put it in public PM me and I will look to assist where I can. But the lose ness you are suffering is not something I have encountered too many times, and I have probably handled 1500-2000 Martinis.

Your block should have '74 stamped on its flanks, so even an image of the block will be good.
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 8:52 pm

Here are the photos from photobucket.

Thank You
Mason Howse


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https://2img.net/h/i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u592/Mason_Howse/SANY0358.jpg

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Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:03 pm

Nice photo's
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:09 pm

Thanks

Mason Howse
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
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Location : Loughborough

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:12 pm

Mason

Ok, its your breech block. some time in its past it has been swopped, the stop nut is locally made and there has been some grinding off of the block face, you remember I mentioned the head space. The good news the photo's do point to a nice Mk1/2.

Where are you based?, and I'll advise the best place to get a block from, it should solve all your problems.


The next thing is what to do with it?, well, for some reason the 'ghans tend to polish off all the blue. If I were you I would go out and buy a Birchwood Casey Gun Blue kit. It'll restore the original "miltary" finish, you'll need about four treatments, then give it some gun oil, it'll come out spanking!.

Regs
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:25 pm

Yes, I am located in the United States. I have a martini mark 2 that was sent to Nepal and the butt stock was replaced with a long lever martini's butt stock, with Birmingham repair marks that I got from IMA. The barrel was loose when I got it, and if tighten does not line up, so I put electrical tape in the grooves, so it is partly a wall hanger. I assume that the breech block can go into the Martini in the photo. If I re blue it will it take away from the value? Thanks for all your help. I really enjoy the Victorian Era weapons. I have the two guns mentioned here, I also have a British Bulldog Revolver, and a Nepal Copy British Snider Enfield, which is my favorite.


Thank You
Mason Howse
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:39 pm

Never mind I took the breech block out of the other Martini and it is to big. It is a mark 4 breech block with E M slashed.

Mason Howse
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
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Location : Loughborough

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:41 pm

Mason
Not really IMO, the 'ghans have polished it off, but its you're call.

I am at 16 Martinis so far, I keep taking the pills, but they seem to make me loose my sense of resistance.

Regs
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 9:52 pm

I guess the number 1 question is, is it shootable as is? Another question is about the other martini, the lock says it is a mark 2, but has a mark 4 E M with a slash, and a long lever buttstock, was this just a parts gun or was this the .402 conversions to mark 4. If this is the case why does the block have mark 2. THis is the martinis that the Nepal Service had and they grinned the ciphers off, which should be a punishable crime, but the mark 2 symbol was left. These are British parts not copies.

Mason Howse
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Ulundi

Ulundi

Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 10:00 pm

Mason. Not for me to say. But woundn't you be better off buying one from Neil, at least you would have a working model in great condition, and the value can only go up.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10267
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Martini Henry Mark 1/11 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyThu Nov 29, 2012 10:46 pm

Unfortunately for me the laws out here in Australia are a pain in the butt regarding guns of any description , I would've certainly purchased one from Neil if it was an easy thing to do in regard to getting it into Australia .
cheers 90th. Salute
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyFri Nov 30, 2012 8:11 am

Mason

The rifle you have is probably one of those reconditioned pieces which came out of the arsenals in India C1900. These are made up from components from rifles broken up at Weedon, or from available spare parts hence the mix of components.

Production on Mk2's ceased in 1890 at Enfield and BSA, however small scale production of 4,000 was carried out by thr Henry Rifled barrel Company into 1894, by 1900 spare parts would have been at a premium, so the butt stocks of Mk1V rifles would have been those available, so the later production of Mk1V pattern A (converted E-M) meant spares were available and over a quarter of these were actually short lever in the first place. take a look on my website to se the original pattern http://www.martinihenry.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=61_59&product_id=78

Your rifle was probably not erased, its 95% a chance to be an example made by the London Small Arms Company which poorly embossed its rifles. Look for the barrel proofs and you most likely will find the "X" logo of the company.
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
Join date : 2012-07-01

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyFri Nov 30, 2012 11:38 am

Thank You for all your help. I just want to ask one more question about the Mark1/2 is it shootable with the current breech block?


Thank You
Mason Howse
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
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Location : Loughborough

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyFri Nov 30, 2012 4:25 pm

Mason
Your "Unmarked" Mk2 should be fine, the blocks are interchageable. Just drop off the forend to ensure there is not excessive pitting under the barrel.

Your ex Afghan I wouldn't until you got a correct block for it. Your head space is excessive with the current block and your likely to get a face full of exploding gasses, not pleasant. You'll probably find the striker point will not hit the primer.

regs
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tasker224

tasker224

Posts : 2102
Join date : 2010-07-30
Age : 54
Location : North London

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyFri Nov 30, 2012 8:23 pm

Wouldn't the previous owner(s) have likely got a face full of exploding gases?
Neil, how long do you think the weapon has been in this condition - since 1900? If it is not useable, has it been used merely as a status piece since 1900?
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyFri Nov 30, 2012 9:58 pm

Thank You, which breech block should I get for the Mark 1/2, the mark 2 or mark 3 block?

Thank You
Mason Howse
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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Location : Loughborough

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PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptySat Dec 01, 2012 10:00 am

Mason
Either will fit, the MkIII was designed to be interchangeable.

TASKER

now you know why ghans have pock marked faces LOL
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tasker224

tasker224

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Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptySat Dec 01, 2012 1:22 pm

Thanks Neil :lol:

But seriously Neil, this fault, did it develop gradually, or has it always been part of this weapon's assemblage?
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptySun Dec 02, 2012 5:22 pm

Tasker, its a culmination of various things. Locally made parts, in particular firing pins, which need the hole enlarging.

Local gunsmith "conversions", and poor primers. The corrosive effect of punctured primers will rapidly erode the block face.
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

Posts : 158
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Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptySat Aug 03, 2013 4:36 pm

I have finally gotten around to getting a Mark 1 breech block replacement. It did the job, the gun's breech and lever are now tight and it worked. I would like to thank Neil Aspinshaw for his help and all the others who help me too.

Thank You
Mason Howse
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90th

90th

Posts : 10267
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: MH 1874 Problem    Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 10:01 am

Well done Mason . Salute 
90th
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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Location : Loughborough

Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyTue Aug 06, 2013 11:19 am

Mason, Glad it worked to plan.
I now have the 1877 Instructions to Armourers which I am putting in the book, previous published works featured the 1897 version, so more relevant.
Neil
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Commander Howse

Commander Howse

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Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem Empty
PostSubject: Re: Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem   Martini Henry Mark I/II 1874 Problem EmptyTue Aug 06, 2013 4:26 pm

Sounds good, I need to get a copy.

Mason Howse
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