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 Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW

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90th
Ulundi
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terrylee
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw


Posts : 553
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW Empty
PostSubject: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptySat Dec 29, 2012 2:35 pm

My local RFD Mike Nobles December listing has a truly excellent article by Brian Knapp at the end, and whilst being somewhat "dodgy" on the Historical facts of the war is the best research article on the Swinburn Henry carbine and rifle purchased by the Natal Authorities circa 1876-78.

http://www.mjnoble.co.uk/pdf/mjn-dec-12.pdf

Knapps article does provide issue numbers to the individual local militia's, and interestingly no mention of Durnfords men, which does underline my previous comments about the issue prior to the war.

Why were Woods bodyguard issued Swinburns?, until November 1878 the issue of Martini Henry IC1 carbines had not been general, mainly due to the lack of numbers produced by Enfield, which had only acheived 30,000 by November 1878. The first issue I have recorded was the 9th Lancers in Afghanistan November 1878. (Robson).

The advantage of being able to engage half cock, with a loaded round in the chamber is 100% better than a Martini Action, it's only advantage as the extraction ]on a Swinburn is poor to say the least, as the extractor claw is affected by a sliding cam and is not good at all, Bullers letter 11.6.1880 underlines the carbines problems.

This is the Swinburn in my collection, Natal VZ serial numbers, does it appear in one of the images who knows, Blakemore retailed.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]








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barry

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PostSubject: Swinburn- Henry   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptySat Dec 29, 2012 4:54 pm



Hi Neil,
Thanks for posting. Considering its vintage and the hard life this weapon must have had, this piece looks in very good nick.
Can you indentify the type of wood used in the butt and stock?

regards

barry
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terrylee

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyThu Jun 27, 2013 1:59 pm

If somebody can explain to me how to post photographs from either my PC or a host site, I'd love to add some of the Swinburn rifle, the carbine and their bayonets.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyThu Jun 27, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi Terry
Drop Pete ( Admin) a message hes a bright young lad.Shocked

Cheers
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Ulundi

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyThu Jun 27, 2013 11:00 pm

I use photobucket. Upload copy and paste image Code into the text box I'm writing the message.

Code normally appears on the righthand side of the photobucket screen once up loaded. Image code is the one second from bottom.

Hope it helps.
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terrylee

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyFri Jun 28, 2013 9:00 am

Thanks, Ulundi. Herewith experiment!

The Swinburn Rifle, Carbine and their bayonets.

The rifle bayonets are the Pat. 1871 cutlass bayonet issued to the Natal Naval Volunteers in 1885 and the Pat. 1875 commercial, issued to the infantry regiments (Who served as town guards during the Zulu War). Both bayonets bear the Natal Volunteer marking.  

The bayonet under the carbine is the rare bowie knife bayonet which was on limited issue to the Natal Mounted Police and certain of the volunteer regiments. Both the carbines and bowie bayonets saw service at Isandhlwana. One survivor referred to the bowie bayonet as a "foolish thing". 

The rifle and carbine also bear the markings of the Natal Volunteers.

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Last edited by terrylee on Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyFri Jun 28, 2013 9:20 am

Hi Terry
Thanks for sharing that. Im assuming they are your own collection?

Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: Swinburn Carbine issue in the AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyFri Jun 28, 2013 10:05 am

Welcome Terry and thanks for sharing the pic , much appreciated .
90th.
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terrylee

terrylee


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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyFri Jun 28, 2013 8:12 pm

Thanks, chaps, for the welcome. Yes, the Swinburns are from my collection. One of my areas of interest is the weapons of the Natal Volunteers and those used by the British during the Zulu and Boer Wars.
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24th

24th


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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyFri Jun 28, 2013 9:37 pm

Terry great photo's. I have been hit by the green eyed monster.agree
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free1954




Posts : 182
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Location : northeast usa

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptySat Jun 29, 2013 11:13 pm

yes. very nice indeed. you never see them for sale or even on display in the states.
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free1954




Posts : 182
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Location : northeast usa

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptySun Jul 07, 2013 12:57 pm

terrylee wrote:
Thanks, chaps, for the welcome. Yes, the Swinburns are from my collection. One of my areas of interest is the weapons of the Natal Volunteers and those used by the British during the Zulu and Boer Wars.
 
 
any other photos of period weapons you can post? I for one would like to see them.
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terrylee

terrylee


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Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptySun Jul 07, 2013 3:09 pm

Free 1954, No problem and a pleasure. I suppose only the Zulu War? If so, which is of most interest, Imperial Forces or those of Natal?
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free1954




Posts : 182
Join date : 2012-02-16
Location : northeast usa

Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW Empty
PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptySun Jul 07, 2013 8:38 pm

terrylee wrote:
Free 1954, No problem and a pleasure. I suppose only the Zulu War? If so, which is of most interest, Imperial Forces or those of Natal?



those of natal would be great.
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terrylee

terrylee


Posts : 44
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Location : South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 12:57 pm

Fine, I shall start a new thread of four spaced parts covering the Enfields, the Calisher Terry, Sniders and Swinburns.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyWed Jul 10, 2013 2:31 pm

Post away Terry, Death or Glory!!!!Salute 
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Rob D




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Join date : 2023-01-31

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PostSubject: Re: Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW   Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm

Dear Forummers,
I would like to ask 2 questions, which are related:
a) Can people PM me  the serial numbers of any Swinburn Henry carbines or long rifles which they own? I have 3 carbines and one rifle. The ones I have handled have a prefix V* for Natal volunteers, prefix NMP or MP for Natal Mounted Police, and Z whose meaning is not known to me. The Z number is seen on the left of the barrel and may be upside down, the others are on the right. So far I have seen 3 Swinburn Henrys and one patt 1842 all with Z prefix, and wonder if it indicates NNH/NNC/Zululand police? I would like to compile a list of Swinburn Henry serial numbers to see what emerges.
I don't mind if anyone prefers to anonymise the last 2 or 3 digits e.g. V* 16---, NMP3--.
b) Does anyone have other 19th century arms with a Z prefix serial number?

Thanks in anticipation for sending me your information, which I'll share here of course.
Rob
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