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» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
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 The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?

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Frank Allewell
eric_deslauriers
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eric_deslauriers




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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySat Feb 09, 2013 1:48 pm

I'm looking for information regarding this painting:

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I've searched and searched, but to no avail: I cannot even figure out who the painter was. All I know is it was a water-colour painted during the Anglo-Zulu War...If anyone has any clues, I could defiantly use the help!
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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySat Feb 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Eric,

Welcome to the forum. A geat subject for your first post. Where did you find the painting?

My first guess was that your water-colour was done by W. W. Lloyd.

Here is a link to one of W. W. Lloyd’s water-colours of “Insde the Lagaar Helpmakaar at Daybreak”. The defenses, with the wagons built into the wall, is very similar to your painting. The word “Helpmakaar” looks to be almost the same.

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Petty Officer Tom

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySat Feb 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Eric,

Welcome to the forum. A geat subject for your first post. Where did you find the painting?

My first guess was that your water-colour was done by W. W. Lloyd.

Here is a link to one of W. W. Lloyd’s water-colours of “Insde the Lagaar Helpmakaar at Daybreak”. The defenses, with the wagons built into the wall, is very similar to your painting. The word “Helpmakaar” looks to be almost the same.

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Petty Officer Tom

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Frank Allewell

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySat Feb 09, 2013 4:35 pm

Eric
It is indeed by Lloyd, one of a series of 12 painted by him st Helpmakaar. I wasnt aware it had ever been published, could I ask where you spotted it?

Regards
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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySat Feb 09, 2013 8:44 pm

By W. W. Lloyd, eh. He was one of the painters of the period which I investigated, as I thought some of his other work looked suspiciously like this piece -- but I could never actually find a reference which credited him as being the painter.

Does anyone know where this piece is held?

I was made aware of the painting by Dr. John Leband. I am taking one of his seminars, and part of my assignment is to research this painting without being given any clues about it. As it were, I have a super-high resolution version of the painting, if anyone happens to want it.
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Frank Allewell

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySun Feb 10, 2013 6:06 am

Eric

William Whitelock Lloyd was the subject of a book by the late David Rattray: A Soldier Artist in Zululand. Various other paintings and a sketch are shown in the book from Helpmakaar.Lloyd was a prolific artist, incredibly accurate in his depictions of the scenary.
David spent a considerable time in finding the paintings local and photographing the self same angles. The accuracy is amazing, almost a then and now effect. Because of the lack of cameras at the time this sort of link provides a wonderful link and represen tation to the period.
The Lloyd portfolio was auctioned a few months ago, if you do a search on the forum you will find the results, suffice to say I was outbid.

Regards
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90th

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySun Feb 10, 2013 6:45 am

Hi Eric .
It certainly is a painting by William Whitelock Lloyd it is in ' A Soldier Artist In Zululand ' by David Rattray as has been pointed out by others from the forum . In the index it's listed as Plate 62 , '' The Laager At Helpmakaar Our Fortifications '' ( Watercolour , 170 x
250 mm ). Part of the Narrative probably written by Rattray states , '' This painting suggests that the structure of the Laager was more substantial than most people imagine . Lloyd and his men would be holed up here for more than three months .
Cheers 90th. You need to study mo
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PostSubject: Helpmekaar camp, painting   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySun Feb 10, 2013 12:50 pm



Hi All,
I am bothered by the correctness of this picture. All actual daguerrotype pictures which I have of the AZW period, and later, only show tented structures at Helpmekaar. The fortification wall around the camp perimeter then were made of earth.
This painting shows corrugated iron structures on the right, and Boer transport wagons off loading sacks of grain.
as I know nearly all of the transport riders of that era were Boers, the wagons shown are right, but the iron buildings seem to be out of place.

regards

barry
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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySun Feb 10, 2013 2:40 pm

Barry,

You are correct stating that the fortifications at Helpmakaar were made of earth. However that was not done until January 29th, when a company of Royal Engineers arrived.

When the first survivors from Ishandlwana arrived at Helpmakaar they threw together a hasty defense as described in Chapter Seven of “the Curling Letters of the Zulu War”:

“When the bedraggled and exhausted reached Helpmakaar, the sight that greeted them did not comfort them. The bustling depot they had left a fortnight before had been reduced to an unfortified wind-swept and sodden area consisting of a corrugated stores shed and a few tents belonging to a section of infantry left as guards.
As the senior officer, Captain Essex too command and organized a defence with the few tools he had at his disposal. He made a small lagaar by surrounding the zinc shed with the few wagons left and infilling with sacks of mealies. At this time there were forty-eight people, including volunteers, camp followers and two or three farmers with their families, who had come in for protection.”

This was the condition of the fort when the 2 companies of the 24th arrived back at Helpmakaar. These were the ones that Captain Spalding, R.E. was taking to Rorke’s Drift, but had turned back. Lieutenant Lloyd was with one of these companies. Before the end of the month all companies of the 24th were moved to Rorke’s Drift, and 4 companies of the 4th were stationed at Helpmakaar, so I don’t think Lloyd had the opportunity to paint a picture of the new fortifications.

I hope that clarifies the differences in the fortification for you.

Petty Officer Tom

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90th

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptySun Feb 10, 2013 9:59 pm

Hi All .
In my previous post I did post part of the Narrative beneath the painting in Rattray's book , here is the other part Rattray
has beneath this painting , so it may help you Barry .
'' Close to this was the Laager , strongly made of earth , its excessive strength being excusable when we remember it's nearness to Rorke's Drift and the terrible circumstances under which it was constructed . Helpmakaar is only 12 miles by road from Rorke's Drift ''
( Montague , Campaigning ; P85 ) . If he indeed Rattray was quoting from ' Campaigning In Zululand ' by W.E. Montague , it isnt on page 85 in my paperback edition .
Cheers 90th.
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Frank Allewell

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyMon Feb 11, 2013 6:10 am

Barry
There were three sketches published in the Illustrated London News showing the cast iron sheds. There is also a photo showing a very similar view as depicted by Lloyd ( Page 214 then and now by Ian Knight and Ian Castle )
There is a second different photo in the SB Bourquin collection from a different angle showing the sheds. They were erected as part of the original supply depot. In the Sb photo the old farmhouse is also shown, parts of it still stand today.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyMon Feb 22, 2016 9:19 pm

Main supply depot for the No 3 Column at Helpmakaar mealie bags used to support the wall.

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Source:dmc
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyTue Feb 23, 2016 5:15 am

Cannon at Helpmakaar?
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barry

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PostSubject: Helpmekaar   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyTue Feb 23, 2016 5:31 am

Hi Frank,
Indeed, not a 7pdr RML either but something else.
Perhaps artistic licence being excercised in the same vein as the rendition of Isandlwana battlefield depicting Scotch carts delivering copious quantities of ammo to the firing lines around the heavily beseiged camp.
Joking aside I see in the pic too, many entrenching tools and piles of boxes of ammo ready for use there.

regards

barry
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90th

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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: The Lagaar Helpmakaar   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyTue Feb 23, 2016 5:43 am

I find it difficult to believe there was any Artillery at H'makaar , certainly artistic licence , and no doubt the painting was constructed after the 22nd Jan as were / was the entrenchments ! , happy to be corrected scratch
90th
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyTue Feb 23, 2016 6:35 am

Littlehand
You've got to find a different subject for your art classes mate. Very Happy
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rusteze

rusteze


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Join date : 2010-06-02

The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)?   The  Lagaar Helpmakaar Anyone recognize this Anglo-Zulu War water-colour (obscure)? EmptyTue Feb 23, 2016 12:03 pm

Sketch is from a series of 4 in the ILN in April 79. Makes the fort look pretty substantial. Note the waggon laager behind the mound - belt and braces. Shown the other way around in the watercolour.
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Steve
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