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 William Henry Hoskin Allen

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Tomvdp
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littlehand

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William Henry Hoskin Allen Empty
PostSubject: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptySun Mar 03, 2013 11:39 pm

William Henry Hoskin Allen, born St Teath Cornwall, England in 1854, the son of Thomas Allen of the same parish. He served as a Corporal in the pre-isandlwana Natal Native Contingent's 2nd Battalion, 3rd regiment. Killed in action at the battle of Isandlwana, 22nd Jan 1879, for which the Government's credit list awarded £17.2s.6d to his next of kin.

Source: VWF
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90th

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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyTue Mar 05, 2013 6:08 am

Hi Littlehand .
Not to sure what to make of this but I checked '' For God , Queen & Colony '' by Terry Sole , the only Corp Allen KIA at Isandlwana in the NNC is William Lawson Allen , which is much different to William Henry Hoskin Allen ! . Also in the Foryth Roll the only Corp Allen from there from the NNC is W. Allen with no other initial . Not to sure what to make of that , some one's names are obviously incorrect ?. Suspect
Cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyTue Mar 05, 2013 8:40 am

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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptySun Mar 09, 2014 12:05 pm

I am trying to find out more information on a Sergt. W. Allen. I received a coin collection and in it were four victorian campaign medals one of which is a Zulu campaign 1879.
The inscription reads Sergt. W. Allen Natal Native Contgt.
Weather this is the W. H. H. Allen who was a Corp. I find lots of conflicting information and hoped you could help me out.
thanks
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptySun Mar 09, 2014 3:41 pm

Hiya Tomvdp, in the casualty roll for the
Zulu and Basuto wars South Africa 1877-9
compiled by I.T. Tavender...Corporal's..
Allen W. killed in action..2nd Batt NNC.
page 15.sorry there was not more.
cheers xhosa2000
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ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptySun Mar 09, 2014 9:46 pm

http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5329
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyFri Mar 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Dear All,

I've been following this thread closely, and I'm trying pretty hard to clarify it all. Here's my summarising/theorising so far:

A number of inconsistencies appear to exist in the currently available medal rolls and casualty rolls for Isandhlwana concerning recipients of the name ‘Allen’ in the Natal Native Contingent, most easily summarised as follows:

1) Sergeant J Allen, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Regiment NNC
2) Corporal W Allen, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Regiment NNC (with additional detail ‘William Lawson Allen’ given in ‘For God Queen & Colony’ by T. Sole)
3) Sergeant W. Allen, 3rd Battalion, 3rd Regiment NNC (as shown in ‘Forgotten Heroes – Zulu & Basuto Wars’ by R. Dutton)

To date, the debate has largely centred on the possibility that Corporal W Allen and Sergeant W Allen are indeed one and the same person, as an example of double-counting. The discovery of the family headstone regarding a man of this name however, appears to shed some very important light on the topic. The headstone, in the village of St Teath, Cornwall, reads: ‘William Henry Hoskin Allen, of this parish, who fell at the battle of Isandlwana, South Africa, 22nd January, 1879, in his 24th year.’ The headstone also shows below the name of his brother Giles, who died during a mining accident.

This reliable source information allows us to refine our knowledge of one recipient to be, beyond reasonable doubt, William Henry Hoskin Allen, born c.1854-5 in St. Teath Cornwall, the son of Christopher (not Thomas) Male Allen, a quarryman, and Catherine Allen (née Hoskin), elder brother of Giles Allen, no less. Provided that the information in Terry Sole’s Book ‘For God Queen & Country’ refers to a reliable roll or archival source, which presumably it must, this would seem to confirm the existence of both Corporal William Lawson Allen (2nd/3rd) and Sergeant William Henry Hoskin Allen (3rd/3rd), thus clarifying the status of both awards. It still leaves us none-the-wiser regarding the J. Allen though.

I put it to the floor - what do you think? PS does anyone know Terry Sole to ask him about the basis of the William Lawson Allen information, which seems unique to his book? I'm not trying to ruin or discredit anyone's previous theories or statements at all, just desperately trying to get to the truth! Rebuttals welcome!  Wink 

Many thanks,

Dave
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyTue Apr 01, 2014 10:26 pm

I think you make a very valid point.
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyMon Aug 18, 2014 9:41 pm

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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyWed Mar 09, 2022 11:02 am

In the Natal Witness 18 March 1879 in the BMD column is mention of William Lawson Allan kia Isandhlwana 2nd son of Thomas and Ann Allan of Ladysmith, aged 21 y 11m 19d.
Note the different age.
This can only be the Corporal Allan (not Allen) in the NNC.
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyMon Mar 20, 2023 10:16 pm

Julian,

There is a document in the PMB Archive Repository with the following description:

Walton and Tatham. Apply for any money due to Corporal William Allen, Natal Native Contingent, who was killed at Isandhlwana, to be handed over to his father, Thomas Allen

We know William Lawson Allan's father was Thomas, so assuming there has been a simple mis-spelling of the surname here (i.e Allen rather than Allan) this may well indicate that W.L. Allan was the Corporal as you say; according to AHB1872's post in this thread, William Henry Hoskin Allen's father was a Christopher.

Regards,

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: William Henry Hoskin Allen   William Henry Hoskin Allen EmptyTue Mar 21, 2023 7:34 am

To clarify , that means we have kia Isandhlwana:
Sergt. Wm. Hy. Hoskin Allen (initial J. in the Casualty Roll) 2/3rd NNC, from St.Teath in Cornwall, aged 24, son of Christopher
and
Corp. Wm. Lawson Allan (Allen in the Casualty Roll) 2/3rd NNC, from Ladysmith, aged 21 y 11m 19d, son of Thomas.
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