Was my Greatgrndfather in the Zulu War ?

Hello everyone, i'm new to the site.
My Greatgrandfather, John Lewis Evans, born in Birmingham in 1870, was according to family members, in the Zulu war. The information i have is sparse and heresay but includes:

''Was shipwrecked off the Cape of Good Hope,officer shot horses,he was looked after by a Dutch farmer''

''Was on ship in trouble (in Bay of Biscay !!) and they had to throw the horses overboard to save themselves''

Not much to go on and perhaps lost in translation somewhere as to events and location.
However, i cannot locate him in the 1881 census and i have a couple of photos that show him in Uniform. There may be somesubstance in the belief that he was in the War but at this stage i have no more than the above and all the family members who may have known more are now deceased.

I hope i can get some leads as how to progress from here if anyone is able to help.

Thanks,
Middy

Middy. Welcome to the forum.. Are you able to post the photo's of him In uniform.

Correction....sorry born in 1860, would have been a young recruit if born in 1870!

littlehand: thanks for welcome. Unable at moment to post a photo to forum but will try to follow suggestions in FAQ.

Well I was looking at the Birkenhead, as there was a John Lewis on there, but if he was born in 1860, he wasn't even born. So it's not the Birkenhead.

Hi Middy

Welcome to the forum.

Yes your relative did take part in the later stage of the Zulu War.

John Lewis Evans was a private in the 1st Battalion 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. His service number was 1775.

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Given Graves input I would suggest that the shipwreck was that of "The Clyde".

'Jimu

Middy,

Let me add my welcome to our fine forum.

Here is a little more information on the wreck of your great grandfather’s ship. She ran onto a reef off Dyer Island on 3 April, 1879. Dyer Island is about 70 miles east of Simon’s Bay.

The following is from the report by the colonel who was in command of the replacement troops for the 24th. (Source: “The Journal of The Household Brigade for the year 1879”)

"I regret to have to report to you, for the information of his Royal Highness the Field Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, that the hired transport Clyde was totally lost near Dyer Island on April 3, 1879; hut I am glad to report that no lives were lost. About 4.35 A.M. I was called by the officer of the watch, who informed me that the ship was aground. I immediately ordered the officers to be called, and went on deck. As soon as it was light, we saw Dyer Island about two miles on the starboard beam. At 4.50 A.M. Captain Luckhurst informed me that the ship was aground fore and aft. I ordered the assembly to be sounded. The men fell in with the greatest order and regularity. Sentries were at once posted over the boats and the spirit room.
"At 5.25 A.M. two lifeboats were ready. 5.30 A.M.—Ordered breakfast to be prepared for troops at once. 5.40 A.M.—Ordered sick and A and D Companies to get arms and accoutrements, and all they could put into valises and be ready to land. Ordered preserved meat cases, tea, and biscuits to be got ready on deck, also water into the barricoes.
"6 A.M.—Ordered remaining companies to be got ready.
"6.20 A.M.—Sick under Surgeon-Major E. Ward, and as many men of D Company as the boats would hold, left for the shore under Captain Brander, 24th Regiment, and Lieutenant Carey, 98th Regiment, having previously had breakfast, and having filled their water-bottles with tea or water, and biscuits in their haversacks.
"I ordered each boat to take preserved meat and water with them, which was carried out.
"7.10 A.M.—Asked Captain Luckhurst to get horse-boat ready. He said it was not poss1ble to get it off under half a day's work.
"Two to three feet of water in the hold at 7.10 A.M.
"At 7.35 A.M. 8 ft. of water in hold, closed ports.
"7.45 A.M. boats began to return, having landed first men who embarked in the boats for shore; continued sending boats to and fro between ship and shore until 11.10 A.M., when all the troops were landed except four officers and 84 men left as a working party. Arms and accoutrements of these men I had sent on shore.
"7.52 A.M.—The chief officer (Mr. Abbott) left in the smallest boat for Simon's Bay, to report to senior naval officer, leaving us five boats only, distance about 70 miles.
"8.30 A.M.—Bumping heavily aft. Began to make a raft.
"9.23 A.M.—A small boat with two men came from Dyer Island.
"Sent a non-commissioned officer and five men to Dyer Island to get larger boat.
"9.45 A.M.—Received note from Captain Glennie, 24th Regiment, to say that Mr. Albert Van der Byl had come down to beach, and marked with flags the safest place to land.
"10.10 A.M.—Destroyed rum and porter in forehold and afterhold, and nailed down hatches over wine.
"10.20 A.M.—E company dined.
"10.50 A.M.—Raft ready, and Dutch boat came alongside from Dyer Island.
"The latter wae most useful to us, both disembarking and embarking on the following day; and we are much indebted to the boatman, Francis Anthony, for his assistance.
"10.55 A.M.—Received letter from Captain Glennie, 24th Regiment, from shore, to say that he had, by my directions, arranged to relieve crews as they landed.
"Received letter from Lieutenant Carey, 98th Regiment, on shore, reporting he had found good camping-ground and water about two miles from landing-place; that ho had sent off telegrams to Simon's Bay, via Caledon, 45 miles distant; and that Mr. A1bert Van der Byl could supply us with fresh meat, &c.
"11"30 A.M.—Sent away raft, towed by one loaded boat, which was joined by another halfway to the shore. The raft was loaded with preserved meat and biscuit.
"Unfortunately, before the raft could be got to the shore, the ship was sinking so fast that the boats were obliged to cast it off and come to our assistance, consequently nearly all our biscuits were lost.
"All the men but the working party having landed, I now considered it my duty to save some of the officers' baggage and the horses. Two of the latter were thrown overboard and safely landed.
"12.10 P.M.—Received letter from Captain Brander, 24th Regiment, saying he had plenty of water and wood.
"12.15 P.M.—About 12 ft. of water in the hold; the tide having risen, the ship now slipped off into deep water.
"12.35 P.M.—20 ft. of water in the hold, and, as the ship seemed to be sinking fast in 43 ft. of water, I considered it my duty to send off as many men as possible in the boats then alongside. I remained on board with Captain Cotton and 27 non-commissioned officers and men, besides some of the crew.
"12.45 P.M.—Captain Luckhurst let go the anchor. Threw overboard sheep-pens, hencoops, hatches, and ladders, and secured them alongside. Made a small raft with assistance of Captain Cotton and a few soldiers.
"Captain Luckhurst now informed me that the ship might sink at any moment. Sent off raft with four men and gave out the lifebuoys to the soldiers as far as they would go; ordered all men into the rigging.
"We now passed a most trying 45 minutes; we knew the ship was sinking fast, and we had no boat within two miles of us, the officers in charge of the boata not knowing we were in the slightest danger, our position having so entirely altered since they left the ship. Notwithstanding the imminent danger we appeared to be in, most perfect discipline and regularity was maintained, and the men were as calm as if on parade on shore.
"Three boats were away with the horses. We shouted, fired pistols, and waved to them, and after some time they became aware of our danger, and then rowed to our assistance as fast as possible.
"1.30 P.M.—Having seen the last soldier into the boats, Captain Cotton and myself also left the ship.
"Having a boat full, I rowed to the shore. Captain Cotton's boat having very few men in it, he remained alongside and afterwards again went on board and threw overboard the other horses (who were safely towed ashore), and with the assistance of Lieutenant Colville, Grenadier Guards, saved two more boats of baggage.
"At 2.10 P.M. I landed and formed working parties at the landing-place. 1 left orders that the boats were to keep going to and from the ship and try to rescue as much baggage as possible.
"I then walked to the bivouac ground, where I found that Captain Brander, 24th Regiment, and Lieutenant Carey, 98th Regiment, had made kitchens, and were preparing huts for all the men.
"They had chosen an admirable spot—plenty of wood and water, and a certain amount of brushwood and grass, which prevented it from being dusty, all the ground round being sandhills. The bivouac was well sheltered.
"When I returned to the landing-place I found the other two horses and 2400 rounds of Martini-Henry ammunition, and other things, including tea, just landing.
"I sent the boats back to the ship, but on their arrival Captain Luckhurst told Lieutenant Colville, Grenadier Guards, who was in charge, that it was not safe to go on board. He then very properly returned to shore.
"Every man had dined before 3 P.M., either on fresh beef or preserved meat, biscuits and tea.
"5.45 P.M.—We hauled up our boats beyond high-water mark, and I sent the men to the bivouac, waiting myself to meet Captain Luckhurst, who landed at dusk. He informed me that he expected the ship to go down immediately.
"I gave the men a supper of preserved meat and tea. Before 8.30 P.M., every man was under cover for the night, rifles and valises having been put into the huts.
"At 7.45 P.M., a bullock waggon, kindly lent by Mr. A1bert Van der Byl, arrival and brought most of our baggage up from the landing-place by 9 P.M.
"At daylight next day (Friday, April 4) we found that the ship had sunk during the night, the water being about half-way up the lower masts.
"Gave the men breakfast of preserved meat aud tea.
"Mr. Van der Byl's waggon brought up most of the baggage, &c .
"Having no biscuit, 1 determined to ride to Mr. Van der Byl's farm to see whether I could procure flour and vegetables, but when I was on the point of starting Her Majesty's steamship Tamar hove in sight.
"About 10.10 A.M., Her Majesty's steamship Tamar's boats came ashore.
"At 10.20 A.M., sounded assembly.
"At 8.30 P.M., every man and all baggage and stores saved (except the preserved meat and tea left on shore with Captain Luckhurst, who had to remain) were safely embarked on board Her Majesty's steamship Tamar, and not only am I happy to report without loss of life, but even without any one sustaining any injury.
"There being a difficulty about re-embarking the four horses, they were sent by land to Simon's Town, under charge of the two batmen.
"I am glad to be able to report that not only no lives were lost, but that not a single casualty occurred, and although the landing-place was three miles from the ship, we landed about 450 men in under five hours, and through a surf. It was most fortunate that the weather was favourable, or in all probability not a man would have been saved.
"I regret to say that we lost nearly nil the regimental documents, the whole of the stores on board, practically the whole of the nun's clothing and necessaries; but all the arms, accoutrements, helmets, and great coats, with the exception of those belonging to about 20 men, were saved.
"It affords me very great pleasure to report how admirably both officers and men behaved, how hard and cheerfully they worked, and how steady and calm they were under most trying circumstances. Where all behaved so well, it seems invidious to mention any in particular, but 1 cannot conclude my letter without bringing to the notice of his Royal Highness the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief the very great assistance I received from my Adjutant, Captain the Hon. R. Cotton, Scots Guards, who worked with his usual zeal, also how much I owe to Lieutenant the Hon. C. Colville, Grenadier Guards, for the admirable way in which he took charge of the boats, and to Captain Brander, 24th Regiment, and Lieutenant Carey, 98th Regiment, for the great judgment they showed in selecting a landing-place and camping-ground, and to the latter officer for the excellent huts which he so quickly constructed for the troops. The boats were all rowed by men belonging to the draft of the regiment, with the exception of the first two.
"I have the greatest pleasure in bringing to your notice the very great assistance and kindness which we received from Mr. A1bert Van der Byl. He marked out the best landing-place; he placed a waggon with 16 bullocks at our disposal for moving baggage; offered to provide us with fresh meat, corn, and cheese; he also invited the officers to his house; but it is needless to add that this offer was declined, the officers bivouacking with the men. He also took charge of our horses and grooms, finding them with forage, &c. He further sent a telegram to Caledon, by special messenger, a distance of 45 miles, and a guide with the horses on their way to Simon's Bay. He refused all remuneration, although he must be very considerably out of pocket by it. I trust I am not wrong in expressing a hope that some public recognition will be made of Mr. A1bert Van der Byl's great kindness and attention.
"The night was bitterly cold, and the men being wet, felt this more.
"It might appear that more of the stores could have been saved; but I must point out that the landing-place opposite Dyer Island, which was three miles distant, is a very bad one, and if the wind had freshened or veered to the west, within half an hour nobody would have been able to land. I watched the appearance of the weather most anxiously; the sea is also infested by sharks, as is known from the great loss of life at the wreck of the Birkenhead, which occurred within a few miles. For these reasons it was most necessary to land the men as soon as possible. If Lieutenant Colville, Grenadier Guards, had been able to go on board the last time, all the men's kits would have been saved; but as the ship was sinking, and it was expected momentarily that the decks would burst up, it would have been most unsafe for anybody to go below.
"I have, &c,
"H. F. DAVIES, Colonel Grenadier Guards,
"Commanding Draft for 24th Regiment."

A short follow-up to the story - After the men had been taken onboard HMS Tamar, they returned to Simon's Bay, where they remained until 7 April when the "Tamar" departed for Natal. On 11 April, 1879 the men were disembarked at Durban.

If I may copy from the disclaimer at the end of a movie - "No horses were killed in the making of this production."


Petty Officer Tom

Thank you so much Graves and Tom for your input.It certainly is my Great Granfather as my Great Grandmother is also shown in one of the documents. I cannot say how pleased i am that you have found this information for me.The detail in the report was amazing and i could picture every scene that was described. The tingle down my spine is still there !! I am now going to get involved in some detailed research and study of the Zulu War and looking forward to discovering more.Have you any suggestions as to how i can find more information regarding the 24th Regiment and their activities before and after the shipwreck? Once i've got into this i hope to be able to find my way around.Thanks again to you all.

Jimu....my sincere apologies for missing you out on the thank you i have just posted.I was so eager to respond to the information. It was you who suggested 'The Clyde' and whilst i only had sparse information it seems to fit the shipwreck details.Have you any suggestions on how i can find out more about the ship and the shipwreck location. I will search the net for pictures and reprts but if you can guide me i would be most grateful.

Hi graves

Further thanks direct to you. Could i ask the source of the documentation you supplied.Does the copy of the Marriage Certificate say 'South Wales Borderers' on the rhs ? Why were marriage cetificate details given? What is the document that shows the name and age? Is there a full document copy available? How did you find his service number?
Are there any other documents/records you could supply/guide me to?
Hope you don't mind the questions but i'm eager to find out more. Middy

1879graves wrote:

Hi Middy

Welcome to the forum.

Yes your relative did take part in the later stage of the Zulu War.

John Lewis Evans was a private in the 1st Battalion 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. His service number was 1775.

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Hi Middy

I have sent you a Private Message.

Hi Graves,

Thanks , received your message but apparently i need to wait for 7 days as a new member before i can send a private message back. Will send as soon as i can.

Middy

From Forum Member Middy

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Thanks graves1879 for posting the photos of my GGrandfather.

He was made a Lance Corporal in March 83 and a Corporal in July 83.I am unfamiliar with Military Dress but he was in the 1st Battalion 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot.

Would anyone be able to offer some information on the photos/uniform ?

He returned home in Oct 79 and from what i can see from his Service Record was not involved in any further conflict.He moved from Colchester to Salford to Kilkenny between 80 and 84.He transferred into the Army Reserve in Nov 84.

Could anyone point me in the direction of where to find information on the Regiment and 1st Battalion after their return from the Zulu War.

Regards,
Middy

Hi Middy

Your GGrandfather is in the 1st Battalion 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot, Very good!

The father of my maternal grandfather, the Captain Lambert of the fourth outfielders of the imperial guard of Napoleon III allowed the Zulu to win the battle of Isandhlwana thanks to this, He win a commission in the Royal Zulu Army having sold them ammunitions. ..
and after he was appointed induna in Chief ... He died in service before the Zulu war

Cheers

Pascal

Hi Middy .
I'm not an expert on Uniforms , but the Pictures posted of your Great Grandfather , to me , are of the uniform worn after the reforms of 1881 , when they became Martin's ( Lol ) favourite Regt '' The South Wales Borderers '' .The 24th Regt up until the reforms had Green facings on the cuffs and collar . I may be wrong and most happy to be corrected if its the case . . I'm looking forward to my mate Martin's reply ! . :p;: :p;:
Cheers 90th.

Yes this is the horrible uniform appeared with the ignoble reform of 1881...

Thanks Pascal & 90TH,

Has anyone suggestions on how to get leads on what happened to the Ist Battalion 24th replacements/volunteers who arrived in Africa in March .Graves1879 told me that the whole Battalion would have been split up and unless it is known what company he was in it would be hard to find out. Are there any ways to i could obtain company details?

At the moment i have collected 5 books on the war but whilst i see that the 1st /24th were involved in a few of the conflicts between March and October i have no way of knowing if John Lewis Evans was directly involved in any of them.

Regards,

Middy

Middy

To buy books of Whybra Julian - English Son - and you know,!

Your ancestor has fought the Xhosa in 1878 ?

Cheers

Pascal

Hi Middy.
Possibly bordering on an impossiblilty I'm afraid to find details on his service in Sth Africa , unless he was injured , or placed on the sick list . Outside of contacting Bill Cainan who is the Curator at the 24th Museum at Brecon , he is also a member on the forum , you may have to go to the museum in person . I dont know if the public are allowed to go to the museum and check the records personally . I'd drop Bill a line via the pm service , and he'll be able to give you his thoughts on attempting to find the information you are looking for . . Good Luck , hope you find something .
Cheers 90th

Extract from letter.

"Substantial reinforcements arrived by mid-April, the 1st Battalion was re-formed and despite much difficulty in securing waggons, teams and drivers, the second invasion of Zululand began on 11 June. The Twenty-Fourth Regiment was not given the opportunity to avenge Isandhlwana although the 1st Battalion took part in all but the final assault on Ulundi. This time no precautions were overlooked and on 4 July Cetewayo was defeated and Ulundi burned. The last stages of the Zulu war are described by Private Ellis Edwards and Edward Hughes although they were not personally engaged in the battle.

From Private Ellis Edwards of Cefn Mawr, near Wrexham to his family.

Helpmakaar. 6 March 1879.

1. North Wales Express, 18 April 1879.
2. ibid., 11 April 1879. 
3. ibid., 25 April 1879.

Thanks 90th and Littlehand,

Sounds difficult but i'll keep on digging!

Middy