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 Would he have won the Zulu War?

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impi
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PostSubject: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptySat Jun 01, 2013 7:41 pm

Hi all

Shaka would he have won the Zulu War ?

Cheers

Pascal
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free1954




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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 9:29 am

was he a more aggressive commander? would he have taken a more active roll in leadership of his troops on the field?
but I don't think he could have won no matter what he did.
cowhide and spears would never have overcome rifles and cannon.
so the answer sir is no. but a very interesting question
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 9:32 am

free1954 wrote:

cowhide and spears would never have overcome rifles and cannon.

iSandlwana?
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 9:45 am

they won the battle but lost the war.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 10:28 am

Sorry just being mischievous. Salute
Your quite right there was no way they were going to win, not with the resources that England could call. One thing that would have been different is probably the tacticts, eShaka was a master tactician. Im pretty sure the initial battles would have been fought on a more mobile basis ( he did that on a couple of occasions ). Could you imagine that 2 mile long wagon train on the move, thinly protected? He would have 'eaten it up'.
A very astute and hands on man, he would have learned very quickly.

Interesting comment.

Cheers agree
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free1954




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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 10:42 am

i'm sure he would have dragged out the war for a longer period . from what I have read he was more of a hands on leader. do you think he would have let his commanders get away with attacking without orders?
that crazy pascal has started a very interesting thread
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 am

What I think is that Shaka was of a caliber other than Cetewayo, and that the war, even lost, would have been differente with Shaka...

Crazy Pascal Wink Whooooooo! Whooooooo! Whooooooo! Whooooooo!
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Free1954
Not a chance, eShaka ruled as the utmost dictator. If you can get a chance read EA Ritter, see what he put the country through when his mother died, it will tell you what calibre of man the Brits would have been dealing with.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 3:21 pm

Yes agree
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Then again, If the Zulu's had poured into Natal directly after Isandlwana, there would have been nothing to stop them. Their mistake was going home after the Battle of Isandlwana.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 7:14 pm

And if they had done this, they would have bloated how ,impi ? Their army had no logistics for a long campaign and this is off topic dude ...

I think it was more, more the Zulu kings were zero ,after Shaka !
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free1954




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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 8:32 pm

impi wrote:
Then again, If the Zulu's had poured into Natal directly after Isandlwana, there would have been nothing to stop them. Their mistake was going home after the Battle of Isandlwana.


they could have killed every white person all the way to the coast but still never defeated the british army. there was always more to come.
when the American indian scouts who went east with the units who were recalled from the western frontier to fight in the civil war went home and told their people of the massive battles that the white
man had fought knew they would never win any wars against them .
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyMon Jun 03, 2013 8:54 pm

Good point, but if you hold the docks, prevent ship from landing. John Dunn said to Cetswayo drive the English into the sea, but it fell on deaf ears.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 6:42 am

Cetewayo should abandon the Zululand with all his people and conquer another realm, away from white ...
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 7:31 am

Why! It was the whites who were taking his land.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 8:48 am

Why? Exactly ,Cetewayo should abandon the Zululand with all his people and conquer a another realm,as the lieutenant of Shaka who founded the Matabele nation ... away from the whites...For the Zululand, continuous to exist and remains a free nation, a new Zululand !
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90th

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PostSubject: Would he have won the war ?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 8:56 am

Impi do you think the zulu army had the level of competence and more than likely the resolve to '' Hold the docks '' ! . Seriously , these were basically a stoneage people with no concept of what they were dealing with , you are looking at it as if they were a european army which had the logistical forces to apply such tactics . This was a part time army with NO logistical understanding what so ever ! . Surely you've read enough over the years to have a better understanding of the zulu race / nation ? . Shocked
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 10:10 am

Bravo agree , Marsupial, it is true that some on this forum :p;: , consider the Zulu royal army, as if it were a European army with all its logistics ...
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 10:21 am

Pascal MAHE wrote:
Bravo agree , Marsupial, it is true that some on this forum :p;: , consider the Zulu royal army, as if it were a European army with all its logistics ...


but if you ask a hypothetical question you get a hypothetical answer. sure if they had held the docks and rounded up every weapon and learned to use them efficiently they would have been a very strong force.
but in the end the british still would have beat them.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 10:58 am

The question is Shaka would he have won the Zulu War ? For you it's yes or no ? And why ?
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyTue Jun 04, 2013 11:53 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
The question is Shaka would he have won the Zulu War ? For you it's yes or no ? And why ?

No!

He would have been in his 90s.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyWed Jun 05, 2013 5:50 am

The question is if Shaka would have won the Zulu War of 1879, if he was king of the Zulus in 1879 and if he was aged about thirty years Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyWed Jun 05, 2013 11:11 pm

and the answer sir is NO. no matter how good he was they would never have defeated the british in the long run.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyThu Jun 06, 2013 7:11 am

He was they would never have defeated the british in the long run.

And why not, the British were very disgusted in front of the Boer in 1882 !
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyThu Jun 06, 2013 7:14 am

And the U.S. in front of Red Cloud in 1868!
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyThu Jun 06, 2013 7:14 am

And the British in front of the Basotho in 1880 !
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyThu Jun 06, 2013 10:40 pm

I think sir you are going to ask the same question over and over until you get the answer you desire. so YES I think shaka, being the brilliant commander that he was would have defeated the british in south Africa. but no matter how good the were they were no sailors, but they did know cattle. so they would have poisoned all the cattle they had and waited for the carcasses to bloat up and rode on them over the waves and conquered the british home islands. they could have then repeated the act, eventually taking india, Australia, and Canada. and today English children would be singing "god save the Zulu.
hypothetically of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyThu Jun 06, 2013 11:00 pm

:p;: :p;: Totally agree :p;:
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyFri Jun 07, 2013 7:04 am

Free1954

I see that you still smoked the carpet, it becomes a habit for you ...

I ask this question again to get different opinions, but you did not have to answer, if you trouble ...

Cheers

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyFri Jun 07, 2013 7:45 am

Do you think, he would have won Pascal!
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PostSubject: Re: Would he have won the Zulu War?   Would he have won the Zulu War? EmptyFri Jun 07, 2013 8:01 am

Yes, that's what I think, shaka, was not this big bacon of Cetewayo Salute
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