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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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LC, sweet dreamer... Empty
PostSubject: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptySun Jun 09, 2013 10:00 am

Hi All ...

What LC imagined in leaving Isandhlwana, with the few troops he led and those he would join, he could defeat in the open field the Zulu royal army, if it was in front of him ...??? :p;:

Cheers

P.
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PostSubject: Re: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptySun Jun 09, 2013 5:06 pm

In addition, the ammunition reserve of the 2nd Battalion of the 24 th was left in the camp of Isandhlwana ??? :p;:
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: LC, sweet dreamer   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptyMon Jun 10, 2013 1:12 pm

Hi Rascal.

A case of LC's overconfidence and underestimating the zulu's efficiency.

Salute
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PostSubject: Re: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptyMon Jun 10, 2013 2:04 pm

agree agree agree agree agree agree agree agree agree He confused the Zulu with Xhosa and over-estimated the firepower of the MH Salute
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kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

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PostSubject: Re: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptyMon Jun 10, 2013 6:26 pm

FWD Jackson in the Hill of the Sphinx, writes that whilst the camp at Isandhlwana was attacked on the morning of the 22nd January, equally, LC and the 2/24th and Dartnell's troops could just as easily have been attacked in the early hours/morning of the 22nd at their loosely defended, hastily constructed, ill-prepared camp at Mangeni Gorge. The 2/24 column could have been attacked in transit on its way to Mangeni Gorge during the early hours. Any of these scenarios would have resulted in a similar, catastrophic, total defeat, similarly to what happened at Isandhlwana, because in any of these situations, Chelmsford was more than confident that his troops and the Martini Henry would easily defeat the Zulus.
He was wrong of course.
The implication is that no matter where the Zulus had attacked, we were cruising for a bruising.
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PostSubject: Re: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptyTue Jun 11, 2013 6:12 am

The main causes of the defeat is that LC has not kept the 3rd column into a single mass ...

And yet, without laagers, no possible victories in open field with only 12 Companies of imperial infantry in the camp of Isandhlwana or elsewhere ...

LC confused the Zulu with the Xhosa and over-Estimated the firepower of the MH, yet he do publish a pamphlet on the Zulu army, which should open his eyes ...
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sas1

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PostSubject: Re: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptyFri Jun 14, 2013 11:52 pm

The problem with laying he Blame at LC doorstep for not being at Isandlwana, or not doing anything to fortified the camp while he was there, makes the other rank and file look like they couldn't think for themselves, if they couldn't make a decision in the absence of Chelmsford for whatever reason, then in my opinion they should not have been in the British Army.
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90th

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PostSubject: LC , Sweet dreamer    LC, sweet dreamer... EmptySat Jun 15, 2013 1:57 am

Hi Sas1 .
As a serving memeber in her Majesty's forces in today's army , where I suppose free thinking is alive and well in your unit , which by the way it would need to be ! .  I think you'll find back in the time of Victorian England , free thinking was more than likely to be frowned upon , I've never read or heard where free thinking was applauded on any level . Durnford dont forget , was castigated by C'ford in the time leading up to Isandlwana because he decided to act upon information he'd received , which he thought was extremly reliable , although L.C didnt think so,  as he told Durnford he'd be relieved of his command if he did a similar act again . Hope your looking after Pete !
Cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: LC, sweet dreamer...   LC, sweet dreamer... EmptySat Jun 15, 2013 6:58 am

Congratulations Marsupial

Individual initiative had no place in the army of Queen Victoria!

Pulleine to obey all orders of LC, including for the deployment and the tactics in case of attack, it is a perfect Victorian officer ...

Durnford saw that LC had ordered at Pulleine, at all levels, including the deployment and tactics in case of attack, he also obeyed ...Normal ,because LC had given Durnford in place shortly before Isandhlwana ...


It was impossible for Durnford override the orders of LC, including for the deployment and the tactics in case of attack, he also obeyed ...

In addition he had already made up the straps before Isandhlwana by LC ...

The British Army today can be can take more initiatives, it is still necessary temperament for it! Pulleine certainly did not, and LC had given Durnford place shortly before Isandhlwana ...



Everything that happened had to happen and LC is the sole responsable !
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