Quite Stunning

I'm just about to contact [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] while back they made a guy these colours out of silk. Price was $300 which is about £194 in real money. Imho I think they are quite stunning. What do you chaps think.

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Couple of close ups.

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David. Do you know the diamentions. The link doesn't work for me?

Great work, however, there appears to be a flaw.

The Union Flag on the Regimental Colour is supposed to be in the canton (pole side).

:p;: Only Martin would observe that!

Only because he can't accept it was a Welsh Regiment that defended the mission station at RD 

I've seen these on ebay every now and again , not cheap ,  and you'd want them exactly right in my opinion if you are paying that much money , thank God for Martin Cooper ! .
90th

CTSG
Not a Welsh regiment? Where did that come from?

wow - they are good - the union flag would look great in my study...

just given me my next project. Does any one know the correct dimensions of the Queen's colours - I am aware of a colour manufacturer from my involvement with the CCF ( I am sure there are others)- well worth the research to cost one up.

The details look correct perhaps Bill or Martin know the answer.  

Thanks

Sergio

Chelmsfordthescapegoat , This is not a Welsh regiment present at Isandhlwana and RD, but a British regiment :p;:

24th

90th, Thanks buddy, much appreciated.

Pascal.

CTSG is just trying it on , the wording on the regimental colour says it all, ie; 24th 2nd Warwickshire, and of course Warwickshire is indeed in England, not Wales.

springy, you absolute rotter. :p;:


Sergio.

The dimensions of the flags are.

Queens Colour 4' x 3'6".

Reg Colour 4' x 4'4".

Again, the Union Flag is always in the Canton (hoist side), not the Fly.

Hope this helps.

and the battle honour scrolls - CHILLIANWALLA should be CHILLIANWALLAH, PENINSULA should be PENINSULAR, and PYRENNES should be PYRENEES

Both Colours are the same size:

3 foot deep and 3 foot 9 inches long

And the fringe:

Regimental - green/gold
Queen's - red/gold

and on the Queen's Colour the sleeve around the pike - is red not blue.

The original Colours were presented in 21 June 1866 and carried by 24th and subsequently South Wales Borderers until 1933.  In 1879, 2/24th had 27% of its soldiers Welsh born - this compares with Welch Regt (37%) and RWF (19%) at the same time.  Most Scottish Regts only had 20% born in their local recruiting area in Scotland. The present day regiment - The Royal Welsh - carries the honours awarded to 24th for AZW.

Mr M. Cooper wrote:

24th

90th, Thanks buddy, much appreciated.

Pascal.

CTSG is just trying it on , the wording on the regimental colour says it all, ie; 24th 2nd Warwickshire, and of course Warwickshire is indeed in England, not Wales.

springy, you absolute rotter. :p;:


Sergio.

The dimensions of the flags are.

Queens Colour 4' x 3'6".

Reg Colour 4' x 4'4".

Again, the Union Flag is always in the Canton (hoist side), not the Fly.

Hope this helps.

That's confusing it was a Welsh regiment. With a few Englishman.

Kenny, according to the info I have, the Queen's colour is 4' x 3'6", and the Regimental colour is 4' x 4'4". But there again the info could be wrong.

Also there are some other flaws.

Peninsular should be Peninsula.

Pyrennes should be Pyrenees.

:p;::p;::p;:

OH2, You are getting just as bad as CTSG trying to wind folk up.

Don't take any notice of what was said in Baker's almost fictional film about it being a Welsh regiment, that was Baker's way of having a go at the English, and that's because he had an anti English chip on his shoulder (yet played the part of an Englishman).

It was a British Regiment with an English county title, there were many, many, many more English than Welsh.
 
But you knew that didn't you?

Yeah evidence that this was not a Welsh regiment (one of the three regions of Great Britain or of the Bretons come ...) is that if it had been a "Welsh regiment" and that the Zulus have knew this, they would never dare attack Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift:p;::p;::p;: ...

PS: There has never been Welsh regiments in the British Army ...:p;::p;::p;:

Pascal the Rascal

Tell that to a Welsh Guardsman, preferably after 11 on a Saturday night any where in Cardiff:no:

Listen to the first words spoken.

John.

I think you should have posted the above in the 'Just for laughs' topic. :p;:

springbok9 In the Welsh Guards regiment there is certainly not only Welsh!:p;:

But Britons of all backgrounds,:p;:

For example, in the army of Queen Victoria, there was not only Scottish in Scottish regiments, including among the Highlanders!:p;:

Mr Cooper

I am waiting for someone to state that the 24th was really a Regiment of Kent - as there were not many soldiers from Warwickshire at RD - two I think.  Certainly they were out numbered by Welshmen.

Kenny.

Yes, Pluckley in Kent.

It would not make a blind bit of difference how many men actually came from Warwickshire that fought at RD, the Regiment was still called The 24th (2nd  Warwickshire) Regiment of foot. There were more men at RD from my home county of Lancashire than there were men from Warwickshire, but that doesn't mean that the regiment should have had a Lancashire title, it was still called The 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment (it held this title the longest of any other title, approx 100 years). The Welshmen at RD was approx 15 (about the same number as Irishmen), they were all vastly outnumbered by Englishmen. Although some men enlisted at Brecon, that does not mean to say that they were Welsh, and some men enlisted from Monmouthshire, but don't forget that Monmouthshire was classed as an English county at the time (1879), and most of the people of Monmouthshire considered themselves as being English, it didn't become Welsh until about 1974. So all in all, the men of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment that fought at RD were mostly Englishmen.

Kenny. Click on link below. There's a plaque inside the church at Puckley.
Photos in link.

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Ok Date of birth Wales is 580 AD after the defeat of the  Sub-Roman British in Chester!

Find you a map showing the various Celtic and Germanic kingdoms of the time and you know who are really the Welsh !

Rascal.

Celtic, Germanic, is there a big difference I wonder?

Do you know where the Celts originate from I wonder?

Would be interesting to read what you think about this.

Thanks for the dimensions - will need to do a bit of further research to determine who is correct!!

Cheers

sergio

sergio.

If (as Kenny says), the colours were presented in 1866, they would conform to the 1858 regulations.

These were 42" x 48" (3'6" x 4').

The smaller size of 3' x 3'9" would be the 1868 regulations (2 years after presentation).

The rather odd size I mentioned (4' x 4'4"), was taken from the site 'The British Empire, 24th Regiment of foot 2nd Warwickshire', however they may have got the size wrong.

So it might be best to use the 1858 regulation size for both colours of 42" x 48" (3'6" x 4').

Hope this helps.

My dear Martin,in summary...

As far back as is known the Celts come from present-day Ukraine, (before that, they had to come from Scandinavia as Germains ...)some went to Asia or after many conquests, they were destroyed by the Assyrians ...

Those, they were the Cimmerians and the last king who died in battle, called Conan!

Also note that there were four Dukes of Brittany also called Conan!

The rest emigrated to Western Europe, some remains in the future germanie, others moved to current Switzerland, Holland and Belgium , continuing emigration to current France (or they become the Gauls) and thence current Spain (where they mingle with the Iberians to become Aquitanians in the actual South West in current France and Celtiberian in current Spain) others go to Italy and thence into Macedonia, Greece and Asia ...


Other from northern France form a first first wave to the current Great - Britain (first wave and future ancients Britons), and Ireland today (the ancient Scots , which centuries later form a colony in present Scotland, the colony became a kingdom and this Scottish kingdom will conquer the land of the Picts ...

This will become Scotland (otherwise it would become Pictland!)) The Picts are not a Celtic people...

Later tribes who had stopped in present-day Belgium, emigrate in the South East of current Britain ,its the second wave of the Celts in current Britain...

These bring their famous war chariots, which characterizes the majority of the armies of the Ancients Britons ...

In fact, only the armies of the kingdoms of Ancients Britons found in the current Cornwall and the current Wales, not used these chariots of war, because of the relief of the Cornwall and the current Wales is not good for breeding horses (for the same reason, much later, in the XII th century, the Welsh cavalry, will Still tiny ...)

Others who were arrested in the current Germany, Holland and Belgium, are swallowed by the Germains (or mixes with them, but then remain Celtic peoples ,they are in the future these Belgians tribes fighting Caesar) or resist or emigrate in the East and the North East of the current France ...

The Romans landed in Britain today in 55 BC and 54 BC, but as the country is not a paradise and there are rebellions Gauloises in the current France, Caesar does not linger, in addition, the resistance of the King Cassivelaunos of the Ancient Britons is too serious...

These pigs of Roman back in the current Great - Britain in 43 AD ... In 75 AD, they have finished the conquest...

The Romans go in 410 AD and people become British Sub-Romans (except in the current Scotland, country of the Picts or the current Ireland, land of Scots ...)

In the V th and VI th Centuries, the British Sub-Romans of the current Wales, Cornwall and Devonshire emigrated to Armorica under the onslaught of the Scots and Picts and form brittany pushing the Merovingian Franks Clovis in the early VI th Century ...

They become the Bretons

The Bretons (by blood) are the direct descendant of the British Sub-Romans who emigrated from the current Wales, Cornwall and Devonshire, to Armorica ...

Some Bretons leave in Galicia and form the people of Gallicians by mixing with the natives ... Another Celtic people !

During the slow and difficult conquest of the current England (true England ie without Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall and Wales ,because England is not Britain !) there will be at Chester in 580 AD a lost battle by then sub-Romans British ...

The British Sub-Romans of the current Wales are separated from other Sub- Romans British and became the first and real ...
Welsh...

580 AD is the birthdate of Wales !

It is looking at a map showing the Wales at the end of VI th century that you will know what are the counties really Welsh ...

The history of the Celts in Britain is told in a wonderful book "the ages of Arthur" by Morris, Churchill loved this book! In this book the Bretons are downright considered as in the ancestors of the actual British Celts !!! ...

The Celtic and Germanic culture, are completely different, as it does what you're appearing Japanese and Chinese!

As against the Germains and Scandinavians are the same strain!

The Indians of the plains are classified with respect to language groups. The same goes for the Celts:

Ancient Britons of Cornwall and actual celts of Cornwall and the Bretons of the actual Southern Finistére = Cornish Celts.

Other Ancient Britons - Sub British Romans - Welsh - others Bretons - Gallicians = Brythonic Celts.

Gaulish and Celtiberian = Gallic Celts.

Ancient Scots and current Celts of Ireland and Scotland = Gaelic Celts

And every one of these Celtic languages ​​are divided into several dialects, for example, there are seven Bretons dialects in Brittany + that the Breton language that the French invented and which is the only one that can write!

In the middle ages, when Welsh traders came to trade at Saint - Malo, they spoke in Welsh to the Bretons who answered in their Breton language and everyone understood very well!

Now, today, the people of Saint Malo feel they are neither Bretons nor French, but Malouins!:p;:

Best regards Martin:Salute:

Pascal the Ignoble Breton Rascal:p;:

Rascal.

You have done very well my friend, many thanks.

So the origin of the Celts could well be more German than most people think?

I can remember a documentary on tv some time back now. There was a dig somewhere in Germany, and it was stated then that they had found evidence that the Celts were more of German origin than most people who call themselves 'Celts' like to think. I just can't remember what the programme was called (it wasn't 'Time Team'), but it was very interesting, and a bit of an 'eye opener' for many of the 'British Celts'.

Thanks again Pascal, much obliged.

For Martin

So the origin of the Celts Could well be more German than MOST people think?

Yes Martin , if it comes from Scandinavia when they arrive in Ukraines, all archaeologists do not agree ...

For me verything comes from Scandinavia, the Celts first, second the Germans, and after the Vikings ...

But if you love Britain of the past like me (The True Great- Britain, the pre-1941 AD!), buy you "The age of Arthur of Morris "and you know all about the Celts of Great - Britain and Armorica after 410 AD!

This is in three littles books and it was the delight of Churchill !

Cheers

Pascal

The age of Arthur of Morris 

Yeah, that's extra, to know the history of the Celts in Britain and Brittany after 410 AD:D

sergio.

Not sure if you read my earlier post regarding the size of the colours.

Kenny says the colours were presented in 1866, this would mean that they conformed to the 1858 regulations (4' x 3'6").

However, if (as Kenny says), the colours measure 3' x 3'9", then the colours conform to the 1868 regulations, but that is two years after Kenny says they were presented (1866).

Shrinkage?   :p;:

Hi Martin.
I'll check some papers I have regarding the colours etc tomorrow to see what I find , hopefully I wont forget !
Cheers 90th.

Hello Gary mate.

The 1858 regulations for colours are 4' x 3'6", the 1868 regulations reduced the size to 3' x 3'9".

But Kenny says the colours were presented in 1866, this would mean the 1858 reg's, but he then says the colours are 3' x 3'9", but this size would have been the 1868 reg's, but that would be two years after they were presented (1866)?

So something is not adding up, that's why I jokingly said shrinkage?

Back from your sun drenched beaches are you mate? been guzzling lots of the amber liquid have you, and looking at all the bikini clad ladies? You lucky sod, ha ha.

Hope that you enjoyed your break pal.

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Photos supplied by Bill.

good bill:D 

Hi Martin .
I checked an article I had from ' The Soldiers Of The Queen ' periodical and it states the 1st and 2nd Batt's of the 24th Colours were both 4 ' x 3' 6'' in dimension . In Ian Knight's ' Companion to the AZW ' he states all the Colours in 1858 were
changed to 4 ' x 3 ' 6'' , and in 1868 again changed to 3 ' 9 '' x 3 ' . In 1879 several Battalions carried the post 1868 pattern of colours , but , many still had the old 1858 -68 pattern , and one the 58th ( Rutlandshire regt ) - carried the even earlier 1855-58 . The colours were made of silk.
Cheers 90th.

Look the Elite n°32  

I contacted the makers yesterday and asked for the flags to be made in 2ft sizes as they will fit my office wall better and cost a little less (£98 for both flags to be made and delivered).
Should take about 30 days so I'll post some pic's when they arrive.

Thanks David , looking forward to your pics .  
Cheers 90th.  

Look the Elite n°32 for the flags in zululand  

Hi Gary.

So I was right about the different regulation sizes then, ie; 1858 reg's = 4' x 3'6", and 1868 reg's = 3' x 3'9".

But Kenny said that they were presented in 1866 (which would be the 1858 reg's), and yet he said the size was 3' x 3'9", which would be the 1868 regulation size (two years after presentation), bit of a puzzle that???? 

 



DAVID68.

Make sure you tell the firm making the flags for you, that the Union flag is in the Canton (Hoist, Pole, Pike side), not in the Fly side on the regimental colour. And also tell them about the spellings on the battle honours, and the correct colour of the sleeve that goes around the Pike, and also the correct colours of the fringes.