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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:04 pm

Springy then Very Happy  the case of the ambulance, it leaves you speechless Salute 
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:13 pm

:[url=http://ww :[url=http://ww  Speechless no, checking through the records yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 2:59 pm

:[url=http://ww :[url=http://ww :[url=http://ww You not worried Springy ! That says it all, I just sent you, but you must have other evidence in other books on this matter ?
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 3:37 pm

Pascal
Do you think its possible that Chelmsford didnt take an ambulance because there only was one with the column? And again its possible that Sheperd needed it to transport patients to RD?
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PostSubject: Abandoned    Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 3:56 pm

Springy
I have Surgeon Gen Woolfryes account of the AZW through the Medical Dept , I'll check tomorrow if it states the number of Ambulances in the 3rd Column .
Cheers 90th. You need to study mo 
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:23 pm

Springy

Transporting patients for RD? But in this case, the ambulances would have left camp before the outbreak of the Zulu attack ...

More or saw you play a general who is going to face an opposing army, deprived of its ambulances at the last moment in a Hollywood movie?

If Chelmsford had fought, he would have been wounded soldiers who have had a more urgent need for ambulances that patients in the camp who were in a hospital!

Cheers
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:25 pm

springbok9 wrote:
Ok
So Chelmsford did take medical staff etc. Surely then its a bit harsh to say he didnt care about his men? Or am I loosing something in translation?
I assume he didn't take the ambulances for the same reason he didn't take the ammunition wagons. They would slow down the flying column too much...or am I missing something in translation too?
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:30 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
If Chelmsford had fought, he would have been wounded soldiers who have had a more urgent need for ambulances that patients in the camp who were in a hospital! Cheers
Yes, you can look at it that way if you want to stir up a bit of controversy but I think things appear different when you consider that Chelmsford fully planned to move the entire camp forward to where he was headed.

That night he was rushing out to set up a morning ambush. He ASSUMED he'd be able to bring up his supports later that day. Chelmsford made miscalculations but we don't need to portray him as incompetent or evil or a martinet etc...
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:31 pm

There were at least two doctors out with Chelmsford's force.  

Dr. James Godfrey Thrupp, was a civilian surgeon in the Army's employ, he was assigned to 1st/24th, lucky for him fate intervened on 22nd January 1879.  He was tasked with bringing up the rear of the column with two two-wheeled ambulances. (Contrary to Lord Chelmsford's orders!)   

Thrupp's colleague was Dr. Alexander Ralph Busby who had experience of the two-wheeled ambulances from his service in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-8 where they were used by the doctors of the Stafford House Committee.

There was also a small detail of the Army Hospital Corps accompanying the force.

Here is an engraving of Dr. Busby from his time in the Russo-Turkish War, published in The Graphic.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

'Jimu


Last edited by kwajimu1879 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:39 pm

littlehand" THE NOBLE 24TH by NORMAN HOLME."
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 5:47 pm

24th,

Although that appeared in The Noble 24th, it should actually be attributed to F.W.D. Jackson's Isandhlwana - the Sources Re-examined from where it was taken.

'Jimu


Last edited by kwajimu1879 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 6:21 pm

:[url=http://ww  6 Joker  wrote:

Yes, you can look at it that Way if you want to stir up a bit of controversy (You do not know that this, talking about me, you rambling my poor old 6 Joker 

but I think different things APPEAR When You Consider That Chelmsford fully Planned to move forward to the camp Entire Where he was headed.

:[url=http://ww Chelmsford do not want ambulances because Pulleine would join with ...

:[url=http://ww Pulleine be set at what time, if there had been no attack ?

:[url=http://ww At what time would he joined Chelmsford?

:[url=http://ww If Chelmsford had been wounded soldiers, can you imagine the time they have to wait, the ambulance arrived, the teams sit, and then they leave for the Natal (something which should be compulsory ...)

:[url=http://ww  6 Joker  wrote :Chelmsford made miscalculations but we don't need to portray him as incompetent or evil or a martinet etc...

:[url=http://ww I do not think it of him! I can not say what I think of him on this forum, because I do not want to be rude ...

Cheers
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 6:24 pm

Pascal,

I take it you are not keeping up to speed here, or maybe you're on it! Joker 

'Jimu
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 7:41 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
 If Chelmsford had been wounded soldiers, can you imagine the time they have to wait, the ambulance arrived, the teams sit, and then they leave for the Natal (something which should be compulsory ...)
Yes, that has occurred to me before actually.  Do we have a comparison point however?  Were ambulances brought along for the raid on Sihayo's holdout for example?  Also, I'm curious as to whether the native soldiers were entitled to be transported in the ambulances with the regular or colonial soldiers?  

But, as I say, I believe that Chelmsford intended to bring the camp to him...in which case the ambulances would eventually arrive.  Of course these ambulances were little more than wagons, so the ride from the Mangeni to RD would have probably killed any seriously injured soldier anyway.  In other words, you're getting far too worked up about this. It's not like there was a sophisticated field evac prodedure usually in place. - 6pdr
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 8:18 pm

Gents I have deleted that annoying waving LOL smilie for the last time. Constantly being used, for the wrong reasons. agree
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 8:53 pm

Admin wrote:
Gents I have deleted that annoying waving LOL smilie for the last time. Constantly being used, for the wrong reasons. agree
Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 03, 2013 9:34 pm

Thank God for that. Pascal, you've lost your little smiliey friend. Very Happy
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90th

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PostSubject: Abandoned !   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 5:53 am

Hi Springy / Rascal .
The following from ' Medical History Of The War In Zululand ' by Surgeon General Woolfryes .
Part of Woolfryes statement regarding the losses at Isandlwana .
'' Among the slain were Surgeon - Major Shepherd , Lt & Acting Surgeon Boue' of the NNC , and Lt Of Orderlies Hall and 8 men of the Army Hosp Corps . A large quantity of Hospital equipment , Medical & Surgical Stores , and 6 Ambulances were captured ''.
Cheers 90th. Salute 

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90th

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PostSubject: Abandoned !   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 5:59 am

Hi Springy / Pascal .
If you combine Jimu's post with mine it seems there were 10 ambulances in the 3rd column , 2 with LC which no doubt made it back to RD , and the 8 captured at Isandlwana according to Surg - Gen Woolfryes .
Cheers 90th You need to study mo 
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:01 am

6 PDR wrote: Also, I'm curious as to Whether the native soldiers Were entitled to be Transported in the ambulance with the regular or colonial soldiers?

I talk about this at the beginning of the topic, I'll bet my old, they took care of them ...

6 PDR wrote: But, as I say, I believe That Chelmsford Intended to bring the camp to him ...

But yes, the message of LC for Pulleine to leave the camp arrived at the moment of the beginning of the attack!

6pdr wrote: All which in the case Would Eventually ambulance arrives. Of course thesis ambulances Were little more than cars, so the ride from the Mangeni to RD Would Have probably killed any seriously injured soldier anyway. In other words, you're getting far too Worked up about this. It's not like there was a sophisticated field evac prodedure Usually in place. - 6pdr

6 pdr, Calculating how long Pulleine have joined LC, if he had the opportunity?

For me, this case of the ambulances is uncroyable!

I think LC imagine that there will be no injuries
scratch 

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:07 am

John wrote: Thank God For That. Pascal, you've lost your little friend smiliey

And that one John, you know this emoticons ? J :j:HN

It's funny, huh? I'm going to use, now ...

Cheers

LOL
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90th

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PostSubject: Abandoned !   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:10 am

Hi Rascal .
If you read Jimu's post from yesterday , he told you that LC had 2 Ambulances with his force going to meet Dartnell .
Cheers 90th
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:21 am

Marsupial, Well done, as Still Salute ! There were also one to RD with two other wagons ...
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 7:29 am

Jim wrote: He was tasked with bringing up the rear of the column with two two-wheeled ambulances. (Contrary to Lord Chelmsford's orders!)

Yes as usual every book on this war has its version!

Contrary to Lord Chelmsford's orders!

Marsupial ,This does not change the topic, why LC did not want an ambulance with its "drawling" column?

Cheers
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kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 9:48 pm

Pascal,

Get a new Breton-English dictionary! You need to study mo 

Drawling column - drawling means to speak with lengthened or drawn-out vowels. scratch 

Did you hit the D key instead of the C key? Question 

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyWed Sep 04, 2013 10:02 pm

Pascal MAHE wrote:
John wrote: Thank God For That. Pascal, you've lost your little friend smiliey

And that one John, you know this emoticons ? J :j:HN

It's funny, huh? I'm going to use, now ...

Cheers

LOL
No use this one it sums you up better! Joker 
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PostSubject: Re: Abandoned!   Abandoned! - Page 2 EmptyThu Sep 05, 2013 7:56 am

LOL- LOL- LOL sacred J Joker HN, Except, it it will not be useful for me Very Happy
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